The Historic Meeting between Pope Francis and LDS President Russell Nelson
READING TIME: 23 MINUTES
The following are the notes to the discussion found at this link (https://www.facebook.com/tammy.cheetham.77/videos/578028552696857/) for anyone who would like to study the subject more in depth.
Yes, as you said, sister Tammy, we wanted to discuss this meeting which took place on March 9 and was the first ever face-to-face discussion between the heads of these two global churches.
But, before we give details of the visit we want to mention some of the false teachings of both Catholicism and Mormonism. We are seeing more and more articles that refer to Catholics, Mormons, and other religious systems as Christian and we must not succumb to this idea that is truly from the pit of hell. If someone knows the gospel and thinks Catholics and Mormons are Christians, he or she won’t understand the necessity of sharing the gospel with them.
So, let’s begin with some of the false teachings of Catholicism. The main one is that Catholicism denies the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, requiring works for salvation. Part of Catholic Catechism 1129 states: “The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s1c1a2.htm). (However, not believing in the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice changes the work of Jesus. In John 19:30 we have Jesus’ statement, “It is finished.” Jesus paid the price and any attempt of adding our works is futile. And, those who would change the Person and/or work of Jesus have “another Jesus” (2 Cor. 11:4).
Additionally, here is a list of several beliefs and practices of the Catholic church that are not found in the Bible: the papacy; the Mass; the worship and adoration of Mary; the immaculate conception of Mary; the perpetual virginity of Mary; the assumption of Mary; Mary as co-Redeemer; petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers; apostolic succession; infant baptism; confession of sin to a priest; purgatory; indulgences; or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. (And, I am going to leave the link - https://www.thenarrowpath.co.uk/a-summary-of-the-false-teachings-of-catholicism.html?fbclid=IwAR0zV-Xd0CiByjApzBvS6NnUlQneFeOlvU6J3ZK6HqfhrF453RKgrc5przU - to our short article on the false teachings of Catholicism which gives the dates many of their beliefs and practices were introduced. Jude 1:3 mentions the “faith once delivered” to the saints. Only a religious system based on the traditions of men would add new beliefs over hundreds of years).
I am also going to leave the link for our article on Mormonism (https://www.thenarrowpath.co.uk/mormonism-vs-christianity.html) but here are just a few of their false teachings from their own documents and sites:
•God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
•God resides near a star called Kolob, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 428, Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35)
•"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s . . . " (Doctrines and Covenants 130:22).
•"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
•After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
•There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
•God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
Some may have heard that Mormons teach that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. This belief is based on their concept of God being the Father of all pre-existent spirits. Since Jesus is the son of the Father, and all other spirits, including Satan, are sons and daughters of the Father, then all are brothers and sisters! Parley P. Pratt, an early apostle, wrote, ‘Gods, angels and men are all of one species, one race, one great family, widely diffused among the planetary systems, as colonies.” (http://mormonhistoricsites.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/The-Riches-of-Mormon-Materialism-Parley-P.-Pratt%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9CMateriality%E2%80%9D-and-Early-Mormon-Theology.pdf) (However, these beliefs are completely unbiblical and we notice they either have a Mormon leader’s name attached to them or they’re from books that teach Mormon doctrine. So, these beliefs are based on the traditions of men which is true for so many Catholic beliefs as well).
Now, I would like to begin discussing the meeting and so forth and I will be giving information from an article at Deseretnews.com -
(https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900059557/pope-francis-meets-with-president-nelson-in-the-vatican-catholic-mormon-rome.html?fbclid=IwAR2kHslbVk7vqYG6tSxNHVHdrL4hOgCoTYn1OF_0lS9z7wobJojilCQbv_s)
Probably the most important statement concerning the meeting was made by President Russell Nelson and is as follows: "The differences in doctrine are real and they're important, but they're not nearly as important as the things we have in common — our concern for human suffering, the importance of religious liberty for all of society, and the importance of building bridges of friendship instead of building walls of segregation." (However, the idea of putting doctrine to the side and joining up to solve societal ills is becoming quite prevalent. We also see this idea of coming together to mourn and to work together after various tragedies occur. You know, it is right and proper to have concern for human suffering, but just to mention that true believers will never use this as an excuse to join with false believers in any ecumenical projects. Now, that is not the case here because both of these groups have another Jesus, another gospel, and another spirit. You know, sister Tammy, in reading this article there are many joint projects listed involving Catholics and Mormons. There is no talk of witnessing to anyone being helped, which of course we think is good because otherwise the people would hear a false gospel. But, the point is both of these groups believe in adding works to one’s salvation and they stress a social gospel as well. As we always say we will help those in need when we can, but one of the dangers with these two groups teaming up to help in difficult situations is that even when they don’t witness, others may become Catholics or Mormons after seeing their good deeds. And, then, we have mentioned the idea of religious liberty in many of our discussions, but basically religious liberty means a society or a nation tolerates and promotes the worship of false gods. Obviously, false religions would promote this, but the One, True God never has and never will approve of the worship of false gods. And, we should note that if these differences in doctrine were truly important to these Mormon leaders they wouldn’t have the thought to build bridges).
The two world religious leaders shared a belief that faith in God brings morality and stability to society. (You know, sister Tammy, we hear a lot about morals these days, but having good morals doesn’t make one saved. And, how can different beliefs in God bring any kind of true stability?)
The two men met for 30-35 minutes and also discussed their mutual concern for the youth in their churches, their concern about secularization and the desire for people to worship God, President Nelson said. (It is interesting to note that the main leaders of both of these religions believe the members of these religions all worship the same God. I suppose this is another example of people hearing others say God, religion, Jesus, faith, and so forth, and they automatically assume they all have the same definitions of such, or that it doesn’t really matter so long as they can all play in the sandbox together).
President Nelson gave the pope a Lladro figurine of the Christus statue. (I just wanted to mention this one gift because this Christus statue is a copy of much larger statues located in some Mormon temples, their visitor’s centers, and so forth. However, the practice of featuring such statues is in direct disobedience of the second commandment found in Ex. 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” And, of course, we have seen pictures of the pope bowing down to images of Mary, and so forth, and we know this is a huge problem with Catholicism as well).
The pope and President Nelson embraced at the end of their time together.
"They gave each other a hug as we left that said everything," President Ballard, who is the Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said.
President Nelson invited Pope Francis to Salt Lake City and to the Rome Italy Temple.
"He's a dear, wonderful, humble, competent, gracious man," President Nelson said. "I respect him highly." (So, to believe President Nelson is sincere in these statements we must assume he doesn’t know that the pope is a Jesuit and has been hard at work bringing many religions together since becoming pope. The other option is President Nelson is absolutely in cahoots with the pope and they both are working towards establishing the one world religion).
Elder De Feo called the meeting an historic event and said the two world religious leaders shared a respect for one another and their institutions.
"I had a wonderful feeling the minute we entered when I saw President Nelson, President Ballard and the the pope connecting together," he said. "It was a wonderful feeling to see how they seemed to be like old friends after a minute. (Again, as a Jesuit, we would expect him to be intentionally cordial to all religious leaders. That is part of the plan).
The most senior Latter-day Saint leader to meet with a pope before today was President Henry B. Eyring, who was greeted by Pope Francis in November 2014 when both spoke at an international marriage summit at the Vatican. President Eyring then was the first counselor in the First Presidency. (You know, many made the excuse that this was just a meeting on marriage and not specifically about religion, so it was all right to attend, but the more people of different religions work together, the more accepting of those religions they become. And, just as a side note, Rick Warren and Russell Moore, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission which is the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, also attended this summit).
A visit between a pope and the man considered a prophet by millions of Latter-day Saints would have been unimaginable to leaders and members in both churches 50 years ago. Clandestine olive branches and decades of détente were necessary, according to sources from both faiths interviewed for this story. That is exactly what has happened. In fact, today's meeting is a culmination of a web of deepening and expanding alliances between the Latter-day Saints and the Roman Catholic Church and its many sister organizations.
That growing relationship has intensified during the past decade, resulting in collaborations that now have the two churches working side-by-side all over the world on projects vast and tiny. Latter-day saints…have projects with Catholic Relief Services all over the world, in over 43 countries."
Five decades of change has been nothing short of "drastic," Monsignor Fitzgerald added.
In the '50s and early '60s, Catholics were under official instructions to limit interactions with other faiths. They were not to attend funerals or weddings in other churches, for example. Latter-day Saints heard similar instructions.
Then the Vatican Council in 1963-64 opened the door to interfaith relationships. Leaders in both churches continued to work together. And the 1945 launch of Catholic Charities provided an opportunity for collaboration that would bring the churches' organizations, members and funds together in common purpose. "We began to see that neither of the groups were the devil and we could all join hands in the community," Monsignor Fitzgerald said.
"Secularism is prevalent in many western countries and many people have lost their faith in Jesus Christ," Latter-day Saint Presiding Bishop Gérald Caussé said. "And to have all Christian faiths join together and defend our values is important." (No, the answer to secularism is not to have people from many false religious systems join together and present a false gospel; the answer is to preach the true gospel. Now, we know it is a narrow way, so most people are not going to be saved. And, actually, seeing an increase in secularism shows we are getting closer to Christ’s return).
The two churches have major differences on critical points of doctrine. For example, they don't recognize each other's baptisms as valid and disagree about the concept of the Trinity and original sin. (Now, the fact they don’t recognize each other’s baptisms is quite interesting. Catholics believe their sacraments are necessary for salvation and Mormons believe their ordinances are necessary for salvation so that would technically mean they don’t believe those in the other religion are saved. Hmm..)
That (referring to their major differences) actually presents an opportunity, according to Sean Callahan, president of Catholic Relief Services.
"Working with other faith-based groups helps us model interfaith and intercultural cooperation in Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon," he said. "People seeing us doing this together is as important as doing it. Where ISIS has spread radical extremism, it's wonderful to have religious groups come around together to show solidarity. That way even our staff knows other faiths are behind them." (And, obviously modeling “Christian” groups working together is designed to lead to Muslim and Christian groups also working together).
"The way we go about doing humanitarian work has to honor freedom of religion," Robert Hokanson, the director of Latter-day Saint Humanitarian Services said. "As we do that, it sets an example to the world that it really is important. Freedom of religion and belief allows us to exercise our faith in a way that blesses others.” (However, as we’ve said many times freedom of religion means freedom to worship false gods. This is not a good thing).
"I'm personally grateful that after 180 years of living mostly apart from one another, Catholics and Latter-day Saints have begun to see each other as trustworthy partners in defense of shared moral principles," he said. (It isn’t a coincidence we are hearing so much more talk lately concerning morals. People can unite around this idea and they can leave Jesus entirely out of the conversation. But, obviously having good morals doesn’t make one saved. Atheists can have perfectly good morals. There are even humanist groups whose aim is to prove that people don’t need religion or a God to have an orderly, safe society; but rather that people can have good morals and choose to behave on their own. But, since having good morals doesn’t mean we will spend eternity in heaven, our number one goal cannot be the acquisition of such).
(Now, some people, after hearing this discussion might be thinking well, it’s fine for them to do humanitarian work together as long as they’re not actually worshiping together. They might say it’s not technically a spiritual endeavor if they’re not praying or worshiping with members of different religious systems. And, that is true. However, I want to read three comments after this article that demonstrate the dangers in these groups working together in this manner).
The first comment says: “I think that this is the path to world peace. True Christianity transcends differences and simply serves as Jesus did.” (So, this person believes man will usher in world peace by people cooperating and working together, apparently. And, then he or she believes Jesus modeled the social gospel. So, two major problems here).
Second comment: “A good example of how we need to treat each other. Sure, we have differences of opinion, different beliefs, different priorities, different politics, but we can still work together to do good things. All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good people to spend all their time fighting about small things instead of standing together and moving forward.” (And, of course, we have never advocated treating those of other religions with disrespect. But, sadly, this person doesn’t recognize there is a push all around toward standing together which is laying the groundwork for the one world religion).
And, then, the third comment: “In a day of heated partisanship and conflict it is refreshing to read of the cooperation of these very different world religions...working to make life better for people all around the world! (And, as with the phrase, “standing together,” “cooperation” is another buzzword for the one world religion and one world order. And, of course, true believers understand life will not truly be better all around the world until Christ returns to rule and reign).
That is all I wanted to share from the article and now I wanted to discuss two posts on the Latter Day Saints Facebook page:
One is by the President Russell Nelson from March 7 which reads: “Members of the Church of Jesus Christ declare that a temple is literally the house of the Lord. Each temple is a holy sanctuary in which sacred ceremonies and ordinances of the gospel are performed—by and for the living and also in behalf of the dead.” Well, from the lds.org website we learn the following: “In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord.” (https://www.lds.org/topics/ordinances?lang=eng) (So, we clearly see that Mormonism teaches a works-based salvation since they say these ordinances are saving ordinances. This is similar to the sacramental system in which Catholics are required to participate).
Then, he says, “I invite you to enjoy this video and see inside one of our temples. In this recording, made in the Rome Italy Temple, you will hear from two Apostles of the Lord about promises devout members make there to become better people by following our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.”
https://www.facebook.com/lds.russell.m.nelson/videos/320713795462378/ I will leave the link to this video, but I want to mention just a few points it makes. One of the “apostles” said, “Baptism by immersion for the forgiveness of sins is an essential saving ordinance in the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (Well, we know that some people believe this due to a faulty understanding of Acts 2:38 which reads, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…” We need to understand that there are three possible meanings of the word “for” that might fit the context of this verse: 1--“in order to be, become, get, have, keep, etc.,” 2—“because of, as the result of,” or 3—“with regard to.” Since any one of the three meanings could fit the context of this passage, we need to consider other scriptures, one of which is Eph. 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” So, if salvation is a gift we cannot add any form of work to it. And, this is just one of several verses that show salvation is by faith, not works).
The, other “apostle” said, “And, here in the temple we do baptisms for the dead. Two members of our church will come into the baptismal font, dressed in white, and there they will be baptized for their departed ancestors. Baptism for the dead was taught by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament and we have the privilege of continuing that ordinance today in all the temples throughout the world.” (So, Paul in 1 Cor. 15:29 says, “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” But, Paul is not discussing this as a practice which believers should follow. If he was he would have given more instructions, would have mentioned this elsewhere, and he would have used the pronoun “we” instead of “they” when referring to it. Nowhere in scripture are we told that a dead person can be saved when someone else gets baptized for him or her. Baptism is not a requirement for salvation and does not save us as we just discussed).
The first “apostle” discusses marriage a little later in the video and speaking of the wedding ceremony says, “By that holy priesthood power they are sealed as a husband and a wife. And, if they are true and faithful to the covenants they have entered into in the temple then that marriage lasts, not just to death do us part, but for all of eternity.” (However, we are given no indication in God’s Word that this is true).
And, then on the Church of Latter Saints fb page for March 9 Russell Nelson posted this: “Today President M Russell Ballard and I met with His Holiness Pope Francis at the Vatican. He is a dear, wonderful, humble, competent, gracious man. I respect him highly. (It’s interesting that another religious leader would have no problem referring to the pope as “His Holiness”).
I think the beauty of the day is no accident. Here we are on a sunny, warm day in March with everything in our favor. I think our Heavenly Father is pleased. (Well, since Mormonism and Catholicism are both false religions the Heavenly Father was not pleased at all).
We talked about our mutual concerns to relieve human suffering as well as our desire to strengthen families. We also discussed the increased secularization of the world and the stability that faith in Jesus Christ brings.
We found that we have much in common. The differences in doctrine are real—and they’re important—but they’re not nearly as important as the things we have in common. We can build bridges of friendship instead of building walls of segregation. (And, here are three general similarities (and I am sure there are more) from an article at a Catholic website): 1) Both churches have male priesthoods that preside over complex ritual systems, whether sacraments in Catholicism or ordinances in Mormonism. (And, I thought the phrase “complex ritual system” to be quite telling coming from a Catholic website. I wonder what those who would try and convince us that Catholics believe in justification by faith alone now would say in response to that statement?) 2) Mormons and Catholics have a religious leader — a Prophet and a Pope, respectively — who are considered to be inspired under certain specific conditions. And, number three) Mormonism and Catholicism each claim to be the true Church established by Jesus Christ). (Now, this one is quite interesting and I wonder how each side justifies working so closely together because shouldn’t they have a concern that their members might be influenced by the other side and switch religions? You know, if each individual religion feels it’s the true church established by Jesus Christ and if it has different doctrines from the other one, then the other one cannot be true as well). (https://cruxnow.com/faith/2014/09/30/mormons-and-catholics-have-a-lot-to-talk-about/)
Well, sister Tammy, that is all I have for this time. As always we are praying for eyes to be opened.
Just one point that I’d like to bring out that I think is very important throughout all of this discussion, these two religions claiming to be Christian. You know, like you stated, and this is a major problem because the world, well, like millions of people in the world think like, oh well you know like what is true Christianity? They are hearing all these different opinions going out there, you know, more of a spreading of a false jesus that we are called to expose, you know. This is what we are to be about as believers. It’s not that this is irrelevant because it’s not true Christians joining together here with the false religious system, but this is all part of it that the enemy is using to deceive the masses and it is very important. Like you have stated just so many points as to where this is all headed and it’s just all so wrong and Jesus actually came with a sword to divide truth from error. He didn’t say, you know, we are all to join together no matter what kind of label these have or bring. We’re not to join with these as true believers even if it is for these causes because what happens like, I notice in these things is that people say well am working with this group of people over here and this group over there and it ends up where they do like pray together and all because all these groups believe in prayer. You know, you usually find this and there’s a big spiritual mess there yet again that God doesn’t honor. So, yes, just to reiterate that point, those claiming to have a jesus well we are to expose these because we know it is not true Christianity. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but by Him and these, as you have so clearly stated, have a works-based salvation which is not true Christianity. We cannot be saved by what we do; we can’t be saved by going out there and solving all these humanitarian problems that will always be there because the Bible says we will always have the poor amongst us. We will always have these issues in a sin-sick world until Jesus comes back and puts everything right in the end, in the perfect age to come but the idea is that we look to the true gospel in that Jesus died for our sins on the cross, He came to this earth, born of a virgin, fully God and fully man at the same time and He died on the cross so that we could be saved and that we could be forgiven of our sins. and was buried and rose again after three days and this is the true gospel, you know, we can’t come by any merit of our own; it’s grace and it’s mercy, we just need to repent and believe this, repent of our sis, turn from that way ad be saved. You know that is the simple gospel that we are given and you know all these false religion have to tie in you know this is what the Lord came to rebuke, you know so this is just not something we can just push to the side, thinking well we know these have got another jesus, we need to put this across clearly for those that are being deceived so the true gospel shall be preached and we just want to continue to encourage others to look to the truth because ultimately there are two places where you are going to end up when you die, heaven or hell and you know there’s no in between, there’s no purgatory and there’s no all these things you have discussed, you know there’s no getting out. It’s appointed for man to die once and after this the judgment, you know clearly we are given in God’s Word and these all profess to have the Word of God, you know unfortunately, but there is only one way and this is what these don’t have, the truth and we continue to pray for them, these stuck in these religions, we pray for anyone stuck in these religions, we pray that anyone in Catholicism or Mormonism or knows anybody that is caught up in these religious systems, that you would share these truths with them, that they profess to have the Word of God but ask them where is this because Scripture tells you opposite, hopefully, we hope that some would come out and that all would come out. But, as you’ve already said that few will be saved and the way is a narrow way, this upset me when you said that because I know the reality of God’s Word is that many are going to be lost. It’s heartbreaking, but it’s not that God isn’t just and faithful; it’s that man has a free will. God didn’t make us a load of robots and He said choose this day whom you will serve. God desires that all would come to repentance and that all men would be saved, but this is not going to be the reality because many will choose to believe the lies or they will be self-righteous with pride thinking that we can do it ourselves kind of idea. It’s just so sad, but we pray sister Connie, as we often do for these souls caught up in false religions and that they would come to Jesus, the Only Jesus of the Bible and be saved. Thank you, sister Connie, for sharing these truths with us today and of course for giving us the time and using all God gave and we give Him all the glory and have a blessed evening.
READING TIME: 23 MINUTES
The following are the notes to the discussion found at this link (https://www.facebook.com/tammy.cheetham.77/videos/578028552696857/) for anyone who would like to study the subject more in depth.
Yes, as you said, sister Tammy, we wanted to discuss this meeting which took place on March 9 and was the first ever face-to-face discussion between the heads of these two global churches.
But, before we give details of the visit we want to mention some of the false teachings of both Catholicism and Mormonism. We are seeing more and more articles that refer to Catholics, Mormons, and other religious systems as Christian and we must not succumb to this idea that is truly from the pit of hell. If someone knows the gospel and thinks Catholics and Mormons are Christians, he or she won’t understand the necessity of sharing the gospel with them.
So, let’s begin with some of the false teachings of Catholicism. The main one is that Catholicism denies the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, requiring works for salvation. Part of Catholic Catechism 1129 states: “The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation. (http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s1c1a2.htm). (However, not believing in the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice changes the work of Jesus. In John 19:30 we have Jesus’ statement, “It is finished.” Jesus paid the price and any attempt of adding our works is futile. And, those who would change the Person and/or work of Jesus have “another Jesus” (2 Cor. 11:4).
Additionally, here is a list of several beliefs and practices of the Catholic church that are not found in the Bible: the papacy; the Mass; the worship and adoration of Mary; the immaculate conception of Mary; the perpetual virginity of Mary; the assumption of Mary; Mary as co-Redeemer; petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers; apostolic succession; infant baptism; confession of sin to a priest; purgatory; indulgences; or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. (And, I am going to leave the link - https://www.thenarrowpath.co.uk/a-summary-of-the-false-teachings-of-catholicism.html?fbclid=IwAR0zV-Xd0CiByjApzBvS6NnUlQneFeOlvU6J3ZK6HqfhrF453RKgrc5przU - to our short article on the false teachings of Catholicism which gives the dates many of their beliefs and practices were introduced. Jude 1:3 mentions the “faith once delivered” to the saints. Only a religious system based on the traditions of men would add new beliefs over hundreds of years).
I am also going to leave the link for our article on Mormonism (https://www.thenarrowpath.co.uk/mormonism-vs-christianity.html) but here are just a few of their false teachings from their own documents and sites:
•God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
•God resides near a star called Kolob, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 428, Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35)
•"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s . . . " (Doctrines and Covenants 130:22).
•"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
•After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354).
•There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
•God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
Some may have heard that Mormons teach that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. This belief is based on their concept of God being the Father of all pre-existent spirits. Since Jesus is the son of the Father, and all other spirits, including Satan, are sons and daughters of the Father, then all are brothers and sisters! Parley P. Pratt, an early apostle, wrote, ‘Gods, angels and men are all of one species, one race, one great family, widely diffused among the planetary systems, as colonies.” (http://mormonhistoricsites.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/The-Riches-of-Mormon-Materialism-Parley-P.-Pratt%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9CMateriality%E2%80%9D-and-Early-Mormon-Theology.pdf) (However, these beliefs are completely unbiblical and we notice they either have a Mormon leader’s name attached to them or they’re from books that teach Mormon doctrine. So, these beliefs are based on the traditions of men which is true for so many Catholic beliefs as well).
Now, I would like to begin discussing the meeting and so forth and I will be giving information from an article at Deseretnews.com -
(https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900059557/pope-francis-meets-with-president-nelson-in-the-vatican-catholic-mormon-rome.html?fbclid=IwAR2kHslbVk7vqYG6tSxNHVHdrL4hOgCoTYn1OF_0lS9z7wobJojilCQbv_s)
Probably the most important statement concerning the meeting was made by President Russell Nelson and is as follows: "The differences in doctrine are real and they're important, but they're not nearly as important as the things we have in common — our concern for human suffering, the importance of religious liberty for all of society, and the importance of building bridges of friendship instead of building walls of segregation." (However, the idea of putting doctrine to the side and joining up to solve societal ills is becoming quite prevalent. We also see this idea of coming together to mourn and to work together after various tragedies occur. You know, it is right and proper to have concern for human suffering, but just to mention that true believers will never use this as an excuse to join with false believers in any ecumenical projects. Now, that is not the case here because both of these groups have another Jesus, another gospel, and another spirit. You know, sister Tammy, in reading this article there are many joint projects listed involving Catholics and Mormons. There is no talk of witnessing to anyone being helped, which of course we think is good because otherwise the people would hear a false gospel. But, the point is both of these groups believe in adding works to one’s salvation and they stress a social gospel as well. As we always say we will help those in need when we can, but one of the dangers with these two groups teaming up to help in difficult situations is that even when they don’t witness, others may become Catholics or Mormons after seeing their good deeds. And, then, we have mentioned the idea of religious liberty in many of our discussions, but basically religious liberty means a society or a nation tolerates and promotes the worship of false gods. Obviously, false religions would promote this, but the One, True God never has and never will approve of the worship of false gods. And, we should note that if these differences in doctrine were truly important to these Mormon leaders they wouldn’t have the thought to build bridges).
The two world religious leaders shared a belief that faith in God brings morality and stability to society. (You know, sister Tammy, we hear a lot about morals these days, but having good morals doesn’t make one saved. And, how can different beliefs in God bring any kind of true stability?)
The two men met for 30-35 minutes and also discussed their mutual concern for the youth in their churches, their concern about secularization and the desire for people to worship God, President Nelson said. (It is interesting to note that the main leaders of both of these religions believe the members of these religions all worship the same God. I suppose this is another example of people hearing others say God, religion, Jesus, faith, and so forth, and they automatically assume they all have the same definitions of such, or that it doesn’t really matter so long as they can all play in the sandbox together).
President Nelson gave the pope a Lladro figurine of the Christus statue. (I just wanted to mention this one gift because this Christus statue is a copy of much larger statues located in some Mormon temples, their visitor’s centers, and so forth. However, the practice of featuring such statues is in direct disobedience of the second commandment found in Ex. 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” And, of course, we have seen pictures of the pope bowing down to images of Mary, and so forth, and we know this is a huge problem with Catholicism as well).
The pope and President Nelson embraced at the end of their time together.
"They gave each other a hug as we left that said everything," President Ballard, who is the Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said.
President Nelson invited Pope Francis to Salt Lake City and to the Rome Italy Temple.
"He's a dear, wonderful, humble, competent, gracious man," President Nelson said. "I respect him highly." (So, to believe President Nelson is sincere in these statements we must assume he doesn’t know that the pope is a Jesuit and has been hard at work bringing many religions together since becoming pope. The other option is President Nelson is absolutely in cahoots with the pope and they both are working towards establishing the one world religion).
Elder De Feo called the meeting an historic event and said the two world religious leaders shared a respect for one another and their institutions.
"I had a wonderful feeling the minute we entered when I saw President Nelson, President Ballard and the the pope connecting together," he said. "It was a wonderful feeling to see how they seemed to be like old friends after a minute. (Again, as a Jesuit, we would expect him to be intentionally cordial to all religious leaders. That is part of the plan).
The most senior Latter-day Saint leader to meet with a pope before today was President Henry B. Eyring, who was greeted by Pope Francis in November 2014 when both spoke at an international marriage summit at the Vatican. President Eyring then was the first counselor in the First Presidency. (You know, many made the excuse that this was just a meeting on marriage and not specifically about religion, so it was all right to attend, but the more people of different religions work together, the more accepting of those religions they become. And, just as a side note, Rick Warren and Russell Moore, the president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission which is the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention, also attended this summit).
A visit between a pope and the man considered a prophet by millions of Latter-day Saints would have been unimaginable to leaders and members in both churches 50 years ago. Clandestine olive branches and decades of détente were necessary, according to sources from both faiths interviewed for this story. That is exactly what has happened. In fact, today's meeting is a culmination of a web of deepening and expanding alliances between the Latter-day Saints and the Roman Catholic Church and its many sister organizations.
That growing relationship has intensified during the past decade, resulting in collaborations that now have the two churches working side-by-side all over the world on projects vast and tiny. Latter-day saints…have projects with Catholic Relief Services all over the world, in over 43 countries."
Five decades of change has been nothing short of "drastic," Monsignor Fitzgerald added.
In the '50s and early '60s, Catholics were under official instructions to limit interactions with other faiths. They were not to attend funerals or weddings in other churches, for example. Latter-day Saints heard similar instructions.
Then the Vatican Council in 1963-64 opened the door to interfaith relationships. Leaders in both churches continued to work together. And the 1945 launch of Catholic Charities provided an opportunity for collaboration that would bring the churches' organizations, members and funds together in common purpose. "We began to see that neither of the groups were the devil and we could all join hands in the community," Monsignor Fitzgerald said.
"Secularism is prevalent in many western countries and many people have lost their faith in Jesus Christ," Latter-day Saint Presiding Bishop Gérald Caussé said. "And to have all Christian faiths join together and defend our values is important." (No, the answer to secularism is not to have people from many false religious systems join together and present a false gospel; the answer is to preach the true gospel. Now, we know it is a narrow way, so most people are not going to be saved. And, actually, seeing an increase in secularism shows we are getting closer to Christ’s return).
The two churches have major differences on critical points of doctrine. For example, they don't recognize each other's baptisms as valid and disagree about the concept of the Trinity and original sin. (Now, the fact they don’t recognize each other’s baptisms is quite interesting. Catholics believe their sacraments are necessary for salvation and Mormons believe their ordinances are necessary for salvation so that would technically mean they don’t believe those in the other religion are saved. Hmm..)
That (referring to their major differences) actually presents an opportunity, according to Sean Callahan, president of Catholic Relief Services.
"Working with other faith-based groups helps us model interfaith and intercultural cooperation in Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon," he said. "People seeing us doing this together is as important as doing it. Where ISIS has spread radical extremism, it's wonderful to have religious groups come around together to show solidarity. That way even our staff knows other faiths are behind them." (And, obviously modeling “Christian” groups working together is designed to lead to Muslim and Christian groups also working together).
"The way we go about doing humanitarian work has to honor freedom of religion," Robert Hokanson, the director of Latter-day Saint Humanitarian Services said. "As we do that, it sets an example to the world that it really is important. Freedom of religion and belief allows us to exercise our faith in a way that blesses others.” (However, as we’ve said many times freedom of religion means freedom to worship false gods. This is not a good thing).
"I'm personally grateful that after 180 years of living mostly apart from one another, Catholics and Latter-day Saints have begun to see each other as trustworthy partners in defense of shared moral principles," he said. (It isn’t a coincidence we are hearing so much more talk lately concerning morals. People can unite around this idea and they can leave Jesus entirely out of the conversation. But, obviously having good morals doesn’t make one saved. Atheists can have perfectly good morals. There are even humanist groups whose aim is to prove that people don’t need religion or a God to have an orderly, safe society; but rather that people can have good morals and choose to behave on their own. But, since having good morals doesn’t mean we will spend eternity in heaven, our number one goal cannot be the acquisition of such).
(Now, some people, after hearing this discussion might be thinking well, it’s fine for them to do humanitarian work together as long as they’re not actually worshiping together. They might say it’s not technically a spiritual endeavor if they’re not praying or worshiping with members of different religious systems. And, that is true. However, I want to read three comments after this article that demonstrate the dangers in these groups working together in this manner).
The first comment says: “I think that this is the path to world peace. True Christianity transcends differences and simply serves as Jesus did.” (So, this person believes man will usher in world peace by people cooperating and working together, apparently. And, then he or she believes Jesus modeled the social gospel. So, two major problems here).
Second comment: “A good example of how we need to treat each other. Sure, we have differences of opinion, different beliefs, different priorities, different politics, but we can still work together to do good things. All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good people to spend all their time fighting about small things instead of standing together and moving forward.” (And, of course, we have never advocated treating those of other religions with disrespect. But, sadly, this person doesn’t recognize there is a push all around toward standing together which is laying the groundwork for the one world religion).
And, then, the third comment: “In a day of heated partisanship and conflict it is refreshing to read of the cooperation of these very different world religions...working to make life better for people all around the world! (And, as with the phrase, “standing together,” “cooperation” is another buzzword for the one world religion and one world order. And, of course, true believers understand life will not truly be better all around the world until Christ returns to rule and reign).
That is all I wanted to share from the article and now I wanted to discuss two posts on the Latter Day Saints Facebook page:
One is by the President Russell Nelson from March 7 which reads: “Members of the Church of Jesus Christ declare that a temple is literally the house of the Lord. Each temple is a holy sanctuary in which sacred ceremonies and ordinances of the gospel are performed—by and for the living and also in behalf of the dead.” Well, from the lds.org website we learn the following: “In the Church, an ordinance is a sacred, formal act performed by the authority of the priesthood. Some ordinances are essential to our exaltation. These ordinances are called saving ordinances. They include baptism, confirmation, ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood (for men), the temple endowment, and the marriage sealing. With each of these ordinances, we enter into solemn covenants with the Lord.” (https://www.lds.org/topics/ordinances?lang=eng) (So, we clearly see that Mormonism teaches a works-based salvation since they say these ordinances are saving ordinances. This is similar to the sacramental system in which Catholics are required to participate).
Then, he says, “I invite you to enjoy this video and see inside one of our temples. In this recording, made in the Rome Italy Temple, you will hear from two Apostles of the Lord about promises devout members make there to become better people by following our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.”
https://www.facebook.com/lds.russell.m.nelson/videos/320713795462378/ I will leave the link to this video, but I want to mention just a few points it makes. One of the “apostles” said, “Baptism by immersion for the forgiveness of sins is an essential saving ordinance in the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (Well, we know that some people believe this due to a faulty understanding of Acts 2:38 which reads, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins…” We need to understand that there are three possible meanings of the word “for” that might fit the context of this verse: 1--“in order to be, become, get, have, keep, etc.,” 2—“because of, as the result of,” or 3—“with regard to.” Since any one of the three meanings could fit the context of this passage, we need to consider other scriptures, one of which is Eph. 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” So, if salvation is a gift we cannot add any form of work to it. And, this is just one of several verses that show salvation is by faith, not works).
The, other “apostle” said, “And, here in the temple we do baptisms for the dead. Two members of our church will come into the baptismal font, dressed in white, and there they will be baptized for their departed ancestors. Baptism for the dead was taught by the Apostle Paul in the New Testament and we have the privilege of continuing that ordinance today in all the temples throughout the world.” (So, Paul in 1 Cor. 15:29 says, “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?” But, Paul is not discussing this as a practice which believers should follow. If he was he would have given more instructions, would have mentioned this elsewhere, and he would have used the pronoun “we” instead of “they” when referring to it. Nowhere in scripture are we told that a dead person can be saved when someone else gets baptized for him or her. Baptism is not a requirement for salvation and does not save us as we just discussed).
The first “apostle” discusses marriage a little later in the video and speaking of the wedding ceremony says, “By that holy priesthood power they are sealed as a husband and a wife. And, if they are true and faithful to the covenants they have entered into in the temple then that marriage lasts, not just to death do us part, but for all of eternity.” (However, we are given no indication in God’s Word that this is true).
And, then on the Church of Latter Saints fb page for March 9 Russell Nelson posted this: “Today President M Russell Ballard and I met with His Holiness Pope Francis at the Vatican. He is a dear, wonderful, humble, competent, gracious man. I respect him highly. (It’s interesting that another religious leader would have no problem referring to the pope as “His Holiness”).
I think the beauty of the day is no accident. Here we are on a sunny, warm day in March with everything in our favor. I think our Heavenly Father is pleased. (Well, since Mormonism and Catholicism are both false religions the Heavenly Father was not pleased at all).
We talked about our mutual concerns to relieve human suffering as well as our desire to strengthen families. We also discussed the increased secularization of the world and the stability that faith in Jesus Christ brings.
We found that we have much in common. The differences in doctrine are real—and they’re important—but they’re not nearly as important as the things we have in common. We can build bridges of friendship instead of building walls of segregation. (And, here are three general similarities (and I am sure there are more) from an article at a Catholic website): 1) Both churches have male priesthoods that preside over complex ritual systems, whether sacraments in Catholicism or ordinances in Mormonism. (And, I thought the phrase “complex ritual system” to be quite telling coming from a Catholic website. I wonder what those who would try and convince us that Catholics believe in justification by faith alone now would say in response to that statement?) 2) Mormons and Catholics have a religious leader — a Prophet and a Pope, respectively — who are considered to be inspired under certain specific conditions. And, number three) Mormonism and Catholicism each claim to be the true Church established by Jesus Christ). (Now, this one is quite interesting and I wonder how each side justifies working so closely together because shouldn’t they have a concern that their members might be influenced by the other side and switch religions? You know, if each individual religion feels it’s the true church established by Jesus Christ and if it has different doctrines from the other one, then the other one cannot be true as well). (https://cruxnow.com/faith/2014/09/30/mormons-and-catholics-have-a-lot-to-talk-about/)
Well, sister Tammy, that is all I have for this time. As always we are praying for eyes to be opened.
Just one point that I’d like to bring out that I think is very important throughout all of this discussion, these two religions claiming to be Christian. You know, like you stated, and this is a major problem because the world, well, like millions of people in the world think like, oh well you know like what is true Christianity? They are hearing all these different opinions going out there, you know, more of a spreading of a false jesus that we are called to expose, you know. This is what we are to be about as believers. It’s not that this is irrelevant because it’s not true Christians joining together here with the false religious system, but this is all part of it that the enemy is using to deceive the masses and it is very important. Like you have stated just so many points as to where this is all headed and it’s just all so wrong and Jesus actually came with a sword to divide truth from error. He didn’t say, you know, we are all to join together no matter what kind of label these have or bring. We’re not to join with these as true believers even if it is for these causes because what happens like, I notice in these things is that people say well am working with this group of people over here and this group over there and it ends up where they do like pray together and all because all these groups believe in prayer. You know, you usually find this and there’s a big spiritual mess there yet again that God doesn’t honor. So, yes, just to reiterate that point, those claiming to have a jesus well we are to expose these because we know it is not true Christianity. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no man comes to the Father but by Him and these, as you have so clearly stated, have a works-based salvation which is not true Christianity. We cannot be saved by what we do; we can’t be saved by going out there and solving all these humanitarian problems that will always be there because the Bible says we will always have the poor amongst us. We will always have these issues in a sin-sick world until Jesus comes back and puts everything right in the end, in the perfect age to come but the idea is that we look to the true gospel in that Jesus died for our sins on the cross, He came to this earth, born of a virgin, fully God and fully man at the same time and He died on the cross so that we could be saved and that we could be forgiven of our sins. and was buried and rose again after three days and this is the true gospel, you know, we can’t come by any merit of our own; it’s grace and it’s mercy, we just need to repent and believe this, repent of our sis, turn from that way ad be saved. You know that is the simple gospel that we are given and you know all these false religion have to tie in you know this is what the Lord came to rebuke, you know so this is just not something we can just push to the side, thinking well we know these have got another jesus, we need to put this across clearly for those that are being deceived so the true gospel shall be preached and we just want to continue to encourage others to look to the truth because ultimately there are two places where you are going to end up when you die, heaven or hell and you know there’s no in between, there’s no purgatory and there’s no all these things you have discussed, you know there’s no getting out. It’s appointed for man to die once and after this the judgment, you know clearly we are given in God’s Word and these all profess to have the Word of God, you know unfortunately, but there is only one way and this is what these don’t have, the truth and we continue to pray for them, these stuck in these religions, we pray for anyone stuck in these religions, we pray that anyone in Catholicism or Mormonism or knows anybody that is caught up in these religious systems, that you would share these truths with them, that they profess to have the Word of God but ask them where is this because Scripture tells you opposite, hopefully, we hope that some would come out and that all would come out. But, as you’ve already said that few will be saved and the way is a narrow way, this upset me when you said that because I know the reality of God’s Word is that many are going to be lost. It’s heartbreaking, but it’s not that God isn’t just and faithful; it’s that man has a free will. God didn’t make us a load of robots and He said choose this day whom you will serve. God desires that all would come to repentance and that all men would be saved, but this is not going to be the reality because many will choose to believe the lies or they will be self-righteous with pride thinking that we can do it ourselves kind of idea. It’s just so sad, but we pray sister Connie, as we often do for these souls caught up in false religions and that they would come to Jesus, the Only Jesus of the Bible and be saved. Thank you, sister Connie, for sharing these truths with us today and of course for giving us the time and using all God gave and we give Him all the glory and have a blessed evening.