Christians and Politics
The following are the notes to the discussion found at this link (https://www.facebook.com/tammy.cheetham.77/videos/755510971615280/?id=100014819433180) for anyone who would like to study the subject more in depth.
Yes, we wanted to discuss this topic because we are a little less than a year away from the next presidential elections here in the United States and we know there will be a lot of back and forth about this subject in the coming year.
Now, believers have many different ideas concerning this topic. Some would say we shouldn’t vote; some would say carefully consider the candidates and make an informed choice; some say you’re of the devil if you don’t vote; some have even bought into the dominionist idea that believers need to run for political office themselves.
Sister Tammy, would you go ahead and share the information you have prepared at this time, please?
As a born-again Christian, many are asking questions and wondering are we to be involved in politics and where do we stand with the governments of this world? We must carefully examine the Word of God for anything that we have questions about as a believer because this is our first and final authority. We never go outside of the Word and we always make sure to keep in line with the whole counsel of God and not just tear bits out to make it suit our own ideas and beliefs.
We need to look at some of the questions that arise in this area concerning politics and the Christian and with careful conclusion and seeking the Word I can state that we have no Scriptural mandate to be involved in the political system we have in operation today.
Many would like to take the examples of Daniel, Esther and Joseph as proof that we are to be involved with this system, but we must look at the time, the context and the reasons why these were in these positions at this time. Also, we must look at who put these Biblical examples in these positions so that there is no confusion as to who is in control of everything that is going on in this world that is soon to be renewed by fire!
God was the King of Israel in the Old Testament, during which time He worked through a physical nation upon this earth. Moses, Joshua, the judges and the kings of Israel and Judah, among others, were leaders in Israel. Since they were appointed and since they ruled God’s people under His government, they do not provide examples supporting participation in secular political systems. Moses was a ruler in Egypt, but this was before his conversion and he did not seek that political office. And once Moses was called, he found that he could no longer participate in that office.
God placed these here for His purposes, for the Jewish people and Israel. God used Daniel to show what is going to happen in our day and knowing what is happening now was culminating even then! A One World Religious Order like we often speak about! Daniel never obeyed the system. He never defiled himself with the king’s meat and he prayed despite the call to disobey God. He trusted in the Lord and His purposes prevailed. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were taken captive by the Babylonians. They had to risk their lives for issues related to dietary laws and prayer. They were all appointed to their positions; therefore, their situations do not establish a precedent for God’s people.
Joseph was taken to Egypt as a slave and was made a servant in the house of Potiphar. After being imprisoned, Joseph was appointed to an office by Pharaoh, a dictator. Joseph never ran for office. Nor was he voted in. God established Joseph. This certainly did not establish a precedent among his descendants.
Esther was told by Mordecai not to reveal her lineage to the king. She found favor in the king’s sight and eventually was chosen as a queen. God clearly blessed her and enabled her to have influence as the king’s wife, resulting in the protection of His people. This did not lead to a precedent where Israelite women were encouraged to try to become queens or get involved in Persian politics.
This was also to show these kings they are not in control and God will place whom He pleases in positions. The gospel came to us through all this in the end and now we have this, then what are we doing with it? Do we think we have to join in where God is telling us to avoid, joining with people in political positions claiming they know our Saviour? No! We are to mark and avoid these because they confuse people to think this is what Christianity looks like. We are to respect people, but not their faulty ideas of God. God still has a plan for the Jewish people, but we can clearly see the Bible tells us it will be Him that acts to save them in the end because all nations will turn against them.
Do we really understand the times we are in? Do we really think God is not coming back to smash all this to pieces what is going to get worse and soon bring in the Antichrist and Mark of the Beast? We do really need to study and be careful not to use examples that were used for a specific purpose and stick them to the times they prophesied were coming on this earth! I do pray for leaders and people in positions and respect them as people, my desire is people will be saved from the world's system and to receive eternal life, yet in saying this, I do not respect false Christianity, false beliefs and Satan’s ministers that come as righteous workers.
The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus would be born into this world as God’s Son and He would come from a specific people. Jesus was from the foundation of this world and always was coming and has come and paid the sin debt as prophesied and was buried and rose again after three days! He will soon return and be back to put this world’s system down.
The Bible tells us that God’s Kingdom is not of this world in John 18:36. We look to the government of the Kingdom of God and the laws by which it stands for. The fullness of God’s government will not be visibly established on earth until the future. The state to which the believer currently belongs is not antagonistic to secular governmental authority, where it does not contradict the word of God in what is right, meaning we do not murder, steal from others, etc. Nevertheless, the believer’s values, laws and allegiance are contrary to the world, which is antagonistic to God. We are waiting for a theocracy, “whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10).
And, like I have already stated about voting, some of the laws are consistent with Biblical principles, so we can see why Paul would have said that we should be subject to the governing authorities, if this doesn’t mean disobeying God in that process, as I have explained. But, there may be some things, like I’ve stated, that are right, but that whole system we cannot just give our vote to. Like I’ve stated, yes, just apply my vote to your policies against abortion and gay marriage, but just forget these things over here. But, we can’t just do that. When you vote for someone, you give that candidate your approval, you’re saying yes to what that whole system stands for. This is why we don’t do it. And, we have some that would claim that you’re not even saved if you don’t vote. How ridiculous. When we look at all of this evidence and when we read the Word of God. Actually, they want to turn that around. Not to be mean, but examine yourself and see whether you be in the faith. You know, the laws for Israel came from God and we can see today that none of the physical nations or national leaders represent God and His people, yet members of the Body of Christ are legal citizens of physical nations. There is only one Kingdom that can represent the interest of God, His laws and His Church—the future Kingdom of God where we hasten that day of its coming. This world’s going to get worse. The Bible tells us the system of this world is contrary to God’s system and people getting caught up in this are causing so much division within the body of Christ. You know, it is just crazy how people would just reject their brethren for a vote, for this. Honestly, it’s ridiculous. But, I just pray like you do, sister Connie, that the Lord would open people’s eyes…This is Bible. We just stick with the Word of God. It doesn’t matter what people say. We just pray for souls.
Thank you so much for all that, sister Tammy. What we truly see is a lot of idolatry when it comes to politics. People cannot stand the thought of anything happening to this nation that lowers their economic status for one thing. They have been told by these false churches for so long now that they are the head and not the tail; God has a great dream destiny for their lives; and, of course, they must conquer the mountains of society and bring heaven to earth. Let’s read some verses that show where our priorities should lie.
Colossians 3:1-3 “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”
Eph. 2:6 “And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”
Heb. 11:13-16 “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
2 Cor. 5:20 “Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.”
You know, sister Tammy, I don’t know how anyone can read these verses and many others and then teach that we are to give our allegiance to any nation through voting because our citizenship is in heaven.
And, you know, sadly, as I mentioned at the beginning of this discussion, and as you referenced, many are actually suggesting that we can save our nation by electing Christians to all levels of political office. First of all, this is part of the patriotic or political aspect of dominion theology, and dominionism is completely unbiblical. Most dominionists say that the church will “Christianize” the world completely before Jesus can return to rule the world at His second coming. But, as you mentioned, we know Jesus will smite the nations upon His return according to Rev. 19:15 and it makes no sense to say He will smite nations that have become truly Christianized. So, we can ascertain it is a false Christianity that dominionists are spreading around the world.
Secondly, Christians are not called to save nations, cultures, or society. We are called to preach the gospel. If man could save himself in any way, shape, or form, Jesus would not have needed to come and die on the cross. Additionally, this idea is just not practical if one is speaking of electing true believers. In order to be elected to almost any office, one has to make many compromises. This is one of the foundations of our political system; “reaching across the aisle” to work with groups one may not agree with is a staple of the political process, whether to obtain votes or to accomplish any objective once elected.
Some will say, “Let’s just work together for the common good and improve society.” Just as man cannot save himself, neither can he improve himself. Someone in office can attempt to legislate morality all day long, but we have this system in place already. It is the judicial system, whereby punishments are meted out to lawbreakers. Punishments can be administered for every infraction, but again, is this the business of Christians? Absolutely not! It’s a heart problem and, as such, change can only come when someone is born again. Jesus Christ and Him crucified, is the news all mankind desperately needs to hear, rather than a humanistic, psychological answer. Let us please remember our Lord’s instructions: Mark 16:15 “And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature.”
Now, we know that man cannot improve himself and cannot supply the solutions to all the problems we see today. However, those who follow Dominion Theology think believers will receive downloads from heaven concerning the necessary solutions and that they will then present them to the leaders of this earth. They think they will operate in the manner that Esther, Joseph, and Daniel did as you already mentioned, sister Tammy.
Here is an example of this type of thinking from an article on the Elijah List:
“In the coming twelve months, I see that divine strategies from Heaven will be given to YOU and emerge onto the scene for the homelessness crisis. There are divine solutions for abortion, the pornography industry, the fires, government and for every desolation. I see the Father strategically positioning and thrusting HIS PEOPLE into sudden and unexpected seats of authority and favor. YOU will stand, representing the King of kings, before the kings of the earth and they will desire YOUR wisdom and input in a matter.” https://elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=22902&fbclid=IwAR3b5RxL7FZb-3pf-oGKC5ycaoXeNyAR-_KgauZgj4qSxw_EoWLJCHxktLY (The immediate problem we see with this idea is that it puts all the emphasis on man. And, this person doesn’t predict that those“representing the King of kings” will give the kings of the earth the gospel! You know, we don’t see this happening right now with Pres. Trump and his spiritual advisory board, either. These men and women are supposed to be advising the President concerning matters that involve Christians, but no one has apparently cared to share the true gospel with him! All we see is Paula White touting that the man is saved when he has made it clear on several occasions that he doesn’t need to repent, but rather just tries to do better. Paula White preaches a false WOF, prosperity gospel and this is what attracted Pres. Trump when he first saw her on TV back in 2002. In addition, the only way religious people can force morality on others is through the idea of a Christian theocracy. Does anyone truly want a “Christian Taliban?” Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to study John Calvin in Geneva, Switzerland, the Puritans in Massachusetts, and Alexander Dowie in Zion City, IL, just for a few examples).
Now, I wanted to mention an article that appeared in Charisma magazine in May of this year. The article is entitled, “Why it is Unacceptable for Christians to Stand on the Political Sidelines.” (https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/renewing-america/76342-why-it-s-unacceptable-for-christians-to-stand-on-the-political-sidelines)
It begins by mentioning Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma who once invited an audience to "name one book in the Old Testament that is not written by, to, or about political leaders." He then offered, "I think there are three in total. I'll make you figure out the three ... Job is one." (Well, the first problem here is that Sen. Lankford was one of two senators who hosted the National Prayer breakfast held this past February 7. We remember that as part of his opening remarks he stated: “We gather together at this time under the spirit of Jesus understanding there are many faiths that are here.” We noted at that time and still feel that such a promotion of false unity is absolutely dangerous. And, the second problem is that Sen. Lankford said there are only three books in the Old Testament that were not written by, to, or about political leaders. I guess he doesn’t realize we are living under the New Covenant and our focus is not on a physical government, but rather should be on preaching the gospel and discipling converts. Lankford, along with many others, seems to be confusing the theocracy of Israel with the secular country of the United States).
The article continues -There is a staggering lack of biblically-based knowledge and impact in America's public square. Secularism, Christianity's chief competitor, thrives solely in the absence of morality, and Christians have handed over the culture and its mountains of influence to those in rebellion against God. Any casual observer will recognize that secularism's dominance of academia, newsrooms, sports, the courts, big business, Hollywood and medicine is a direct result of Christians "not doing politics.” Until Christians step into the public square, reestablishing a biblically based culture, the "sexualization" and secularization of youth, allied and abetted by Hollywood and media cliques, will continue to bring the nation to ruin. (However, Christianity and morality are not the same thing. As we have stated many times having good morals doesn’t mean a person is saved. And, then, the author’s mention of “mountains of influence” shows he is steeped in the false teachings of the Seven Mountain mandate. Since the Bible says perilous times will come in the last days, and evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse, this means God’s Word is coming to pass. And, we are not given any instructions concerning the prevention of the nation’s descent into ruin. We know better than to enter the public square and attempt to claim it for Christ. We do not slap the Name of Christ on anything secular and then proclaim it to be Christian. Our job rather is to share the gospel and snatch people out of the fire. The entire system is evil and Jesus Christ will smash it to pieces when He returns to rule and reign as we have stated).
Continuing with the article: “In founding America, Christians initiated a biblically based culture, which in turn produced outstanding men and women of character, whose customs, traditions and moral laws and standards brought forth an exceptional America. For a nation is not exalted by its military prowess or Gross Domestic Product, but by its righteousness” (Prov. 14:34). (Again, none of the author’s words here prove that these people he mentions were saved. Atheists and secular humanists can have exceptional character, morals and standards. One problem is that dominionists, particularly patriotic dominionists such as David Barton, continue to assert that the United States was founded as a Christian nation).
You know, I think the confusion arises because just as we have been saying about morals, there is much information to point to the fact that for many years America seems to have been comprised of a largely “moral and religious people.” Here are several examples: Some of the founding fathers quoted scriptures in their letters to each other; many of them attended churches; public misbehavior was punished publically as with the Puritans putting people in stocks in the public square; during colonial times the New England Primer was used to teach the alphabet, syllables, and sentence formation, and contained practice sentences such as “in Adam’s fall we sinned all;” and the majority of people will check off Christian on any form asking for their religious affiliation. However, now with that identity slipping away, we see calls for the 10 commandments and prayer to be allowed back in the schools. But, again, true believers know that neither morality nor religion can be deemed the markers of a true Christian. Matt. 7:16 says “ye shall know them by their fruits.” Gal. 5:22-23 lists the fruit of the Spirit as love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.
And, with the fruit of the Spirit in mind here are two major reasons that the United States cannot be considered a Christian nation. These points are from an article in Christianity Today:
“The first is the conquering and subjugation of Native Americans. This land was not a barren, unpopulated wilderness when Europeans arrived. From day one, there have been a variety of people here—Navajo and Sioux, Choctaw and Cherokee and more than 500 other groups. Each with a unique language, culture, and history.Each bearing the image of God. And each, one by one, mercilessly conquered and then pushed aside into reservations. There is no other way to put it. During its westward expansion, the United States signed more than 500 treaties with Native American nations, and each and every one was eventually broken unilaterally by the US. This is not national behavior one could call Christian.
Second is the enslavement of Africans, which began officially in 1641 when the Massachusetts Colony passed the “Body of Liberties” and ironically permitted slavery under certain conditions. Our Constitution recognized the legality of slavery and the unequal status of slaves with the three-fifths compromise. With this small beginning emerged a cruel system that encompassed nearly 4 million slaves by the beginning of the Civil War. It would be hard to deny that the early economic growth of our nation depended on the use of slave labor.
What should give Christians pause is the fact that “devout Christians” justified the conquering and often the slaughter of Native Americans as well as the brutal enslavement of Africans in our land. These are not incidental moments of injustice, but deliberate and steady, justified decade after decade with the Bible in one hand, and expedience in the other, by millions of “believers.”
The point is this: Can we in any way, shape, or form say that America was founded on Christian principles when its very existence and prosperity were set on a foundation of unimaginable cruelty to millions of other human beings?” (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/july-web-only/july-4-christian-nation-great-terrible-galli.html) (And, I think the answer to that question is clear. So, the fact that some of the founding fathers mentioned scriptures in their correspondence, for example, does not negate these horrible examples of absolute cruelty I have just shared. Such atrocities are not committed by Bible-believing Christians as we are taught to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek).
Now, I want to mention an article that appeared at Charisma magazine on Nov. 30. The article is entitled, “Chuck Pierce Prophesies: We Are Entering a New Kingdom Era.”
https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/78996-chuck-pierce-prophesies-we-are-entering-a-new-kingdom-era?fbclid=IwAR3EZvtD0UhrzsirlqzMz8RyBm4R8N8gjMIXoJiXq0P6ap4zj4SmMj1qmU8
He says, “Speaking of government, we are approaching a new election year in the United States. One of the words for "visitation" is linked with how you cast a vote. How we vote is how we get visited as a nation in our future.
Dutch Sheets and I are presently on a 22-region journey through the United States. For the last four years, the triumphant remnant has made incredible headway. Our goal is to awaken the seeds of revival that have been sown throughout America and cause this incredible triumphant remnant to keep advancing.
And as the apostolic church matures and advances the kingdom of God in the earth, apostolic/prophetic rule will be established in territories.” (Well, Chuck Pierce is truly trying to make people feel guilty for voting the wrong way or not voting at all. How we vote is how we get visited as a nation, really? God is not dealing with nations at this time. Again, Jesus is going to smite the nations when He returns. And, then the apostolic/prophetic bunch is the triumphant remnant? What a load of rubbish! The apostolic/prophetic bunch is the main promoter of the NAR and it is heartbreaking to think of all the damage that has been done through this false teaching. And, then, he mentions the revival that is going to happen, but it will be a counterfeit one and will lead people straight into the one world religion. And, the kicker is Chuck Pierce is actually admitting what this bunch has been about from the start when he says “apostolic/prophetic rule will be established in territories.” This entire belief system is founded on man and the false authority these types think man possesses.
But, sadly, there are those who truly idolize this nation and will attack those who are supposed to be their brethren over this topic of politics. A fellow wanted to argue with me the other day on a post and said this: “Your position is a very sick one that would see America fall. It is to sit and do nothing so that the evil Democrats can take over America and spread even more of their abominations. You know, sometimes I truly wonder if people are reading their Bibles at all. Are people totally ignoring all the verses about end times that describe perilous times and evil men and seducers waxing worse and worse as I have mentioned? And, that men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. This fellow and many others apparently think Republicans can stop Bible prophecy).
This fellow continued: “God gave us Americans the right to vote for who we think would be a good President. Your effort to silence Christian voices is just plain wicked.”(Really? What about Christians in other nations? If voting is such a wonderful thing why didn’t God institute democracies all over the world? You know, sister Tammy, I don’t think God had anything to do with the fact people can vote in this nation. Having the ability to vote causes people to look to man for the solutions to this world’s problems, rather than to focus on Jesus and eternity).
And, that is all I have for this time, sister Tammy. I just pray, as you do, that people would get their focus right.
The following are the notes to the discussion found at this link (https://www.facebook.com/tammy.cheetham.77/videos/755510971615280/?id=100014819433180) for anyone who would like to study the subject more in depth.
Yes, we wanted to discuss this topic because we are a little less than a year away from the next presidential elections here in the United States and we know there will be a lot of back and forth about this subject in the coming year.
Now, believers have many different ideas concerning this topic. Some would say we shouldn’t vote; some would say carefully consider the candidates and make an informed choice; some say you’re of the devil if you don’t vote; some have even bought into the dominionist idea that believers need to run for political office themselves.
Sister Tammy, would you go ahead and share the information you have prepared at this time, please?
As a born-again Christian, many are asking questions and wondering are we to be involved in politics and where do we stand with the governments of this world? We must carefully examine the Word of God for anything that we have questions about as a believer because this is our first and final authority. We never go outside of the Word and we always make sure to keep in line with the whole counsel of God and not just tear bits out to make it suit our own ideas and beliefs.
We need to look at some of the questions that arise in this area concerning politics and the Christian and with careful conclusion and seeking the Word I can state that we have no Scriptural mandate to be involved in the political system we have in operation today.
Many would like to take the examples of Daniel, Esther and Joseph as proof that we are to be involved with this system, but we must look at the time, the context and the reasons why these were in these positions at this time. Also, we must look at who put these Biblical examples in these positions so that there is no confusion as to who is in control of everything that is going on in this world that is soon to be renewed by fire!
God was the King of Israel in the Old Testament, during which time He worked through a physical nation upon this earth. Moses, Joshua, the judges and the kings of Israel and Judah, among others, were leaders in Israel. Since they were appointed and since they ruled God’s people under His government, they do not provide examples supporting participation in secular political systems. Moses was a ruler in Egypt, but this was before his conversion and he did not seek that political office. And once Moses was called, he found that he could no longer participate in that office.
God placed these here for His purposes, for the Jewish people and Israel. God used Daniel to show what is going to happen in our day and knowing what is happening now was culminating even then! A One World Religious Order like we often speak about! Daniel never obeyed the system. He never defiled himself with the king’s meat and he prayed despite the call to disobey God. He trusted in the Lord and His purposes prevailed. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were taken captive by the Babylonians. They had to risk their lives for issues related to dietary laws and prayer. They were all appointed to their positions; therefore, their situations do not establish a precedent for God’s people.
Joseph was taken to Egypt as a slave and was made a servant in the house of Potiphar. After being imprisoned, Joseph was appointed to an office by Pharaoh, a dictator. Joseph never ran for office. Nor was he voted in. God established Joseph. This certainly did not establish a precedent among his descendants.
Esther was told by Mordecai not to reveal her lineage to the king. She found favor in the king’s sight and eventually was chosen as a queen. God clearly blessed her and enabled her to have influence as the king’s wife, resulting in the protection of His people. This did not lead to a precedent where Israelite women were encouraged to try to become queens or get involved in Persian politics.
This was also to show these kings they are not in control and God will place whom He pleases in positions. The gospel came to us through all this in the end and now we have this, then what are we doing with it? Do we think we have to join in where God is telling us to avoid, joining with people in political positions claiming they know our Saviour? No! We are to mark and avoid these because they confuse people to think this is what Christianity looks like. We are to respect people, but not their faulty ideas of God. God still has a plan for the Jewish people, but we can clearly see the Bible tells us it will be Him that acts to save them in the end because all nations will turn against them.
Do we really understand the times we are in? Do we really think God is not coming back to smash all this to pieces what is going to get worse and soon bring in the Antichrist and Mark of the Beast? We do really need to study and be careful not to use examples that were used for a specific purpose and stick them to the times they prophesied were coming on this earth! I do pray for leaders and people in positions and respect them as people, my desire is people will be saved from the world's system and to receive eternal life, yet in saying this, I do not respect false Christianity, false beliefs and Satan’s ministers that come as righteous workers.
The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus would be born into this world as God’s Son and He would come from a specific people. Jesus was from the foundation of this world and always was coming and has come and paid the sin debt as prophesied and was buried and rose again after three days! He will soon return and be back to put this world’s system down.
The Bible tells us that God’s Kingdom is not of this world in John 18:36. We look to the government of the Kingdom of God and the laws by which it stands for. The fullness of God’s government will not be visibly established on earth until the future. The state to which the believer currently belongs is not antagonistic to secular governmental authority, where it does not contradict the word of God in what is right, meaning we do not murder, steal from others, etc. Nevertheless, the believer’s values, laws and allegiance are contrary to the world, which is antagonistic to God. We are waiting for a theocracy, “whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10).
And, like I have already stated about voting, some of the laws are consistent with Biblical principles, so we can see why Paul would have said that we should be subject to the governing authorities, if this doesn’t mean disobeying God in that process, as I have explained. But, there may be some things, like I’ve stated, that are right, but that whole system we cannot just give our vote to. Like I’ve stated, yes, just apply my vote to your policies against abortion and gay marriage, but just forget these things over here. But, we can’t just do that. When you vote for someone, you give that candidate your approval, you’re saying yes to what that whole system stands for. This is why we don’t do it. And, we have some that would claim that you’re not even saved if you don’t vote. How ridiculous. When we look at all of this evidence and when we read the Word of God. Actually, they want to turn that around. Not to be mean, but examine yourself and see whether you be in the faith. You know, the laws for Israel came from God and we can see today that none of the physical nations or national leaders represent God and His people, yet members of the Body of Christ are legal citizens of physical nations. There is only one Kingdom that can represent the interest of God, His laws and His Church—the future Kingdom of God where we hasten that day of its coming. This world’s going to get worse. The Bible tells us the system of this world is contrary to God’s system and people getting caught up in this are causing so much division within the body of Christ. You know, it is just crazy how people would just reject their brethren for a vote, for this. Honestly, it’s ridiculous. But, I just pray like you do, sister Connie, that the Lord would open people’s eyes…This is Bible. We just stick with the Word of God. It doesn’t matter what people say. We just pray for souls.
Thank you so much for all that, sister Tammy. What we truly see is a lot of idolatry when it comes to politics. People cannot stand the thought of anything happening to this nation that lowers their economic status for one thing. They have been told by these false churches for so long now that they are the head and not the tail; God has a great dream destiny for their lives; and, of course, they must conquer the mountains of society and bring heaven to earth. Let’s read some verses that show where our priorities should lie.
Colossians 3:1-3 “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.”
Eph. 2:6 “And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”
Heb. 11:13-16 “These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
2 Cor. 5:20 “Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.”
You know, sister Tammy, I don’t know how anyone can read these verses and many others and then teach that we are to give our allegiance to any nation through voting because our citizenship is in heaven.
And, you know, sadly, as I mentioned at the beginning of this discussion, and as you referenced, many are actually suggesting that we can save our nation by electing Christians to all levels of political office. First of all, this is part of the patriotic or political aspect of dominion theology, and dominionism is completely unbiblical. Most dominionists say that the church will “Christianize” the world completely before Jesus can return to rule the world at His second coming. But, as you mentioned, we know Jesus will smite the nations upon His return according to Rev. 19:15 and it makes no sense to say He will smite nations that have become truly Christianized. So, we can ascertain it is a false Christianity that dominionists are spreading around the world.
Secondly, Christians are not called to save nations, cultures, or society. We are called to preach the gospel. If man could save himself in any way, shape, or form, Jesus would not have needed to come and die on the cross. Additionally, this idea is just not practical if one is speaking of electing true believers. In order to be elected to almost any office, one has to make many compromises. This is one of the foundations of our political system; “reaching across the aisle” to work with groups one may not agree with is a staple of the political process, whether to obtain votes or to accomplish any objective once elected.
Some will say, “Let’s just work together for the common good and improve society.” Just as man cannot save himself, neither can he improve himself. Someone in office can attempt to legislate morality all day long, but we have this system in place already. It is the judicial system, whereby punishments are meted out to lawbreakers. Punishments can be administered for every infraction, but again, is this the business of Christians? Absolutely not! It’s a heart problem and, as such, change can only come when someone is born again. Jesus Christ and Him crucified, is the news all mankind desperately needs to hear, rather than a humanistic, psychological answer. Let us please remember our Lord’s instructions: Mark 16:15 “And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature.”
Now, we know that man cannot improve himself and cannot supply the solutions to all the problems we see today. However, those who follow Dominion Theology think believers will receive downloads from heaven concerning the necessary solutions and that they will then present them to the leaders of this earth. They think they will operate in the manner that Esther, Joseph, and Daniel did as you already mentioned, sister Tammy.
Here is an example of this type of thinking from an article on the Elijah List:
“In the coming twelve months, I see that divine strategies from Heaven will be given to YOU and emerge onto the scene for the homelessness crisis. There are divine solutions for abortion, the pornography industry, the fires, government and for every desolation. I see the Father strategically positioning and thrusting HIS PEOPLE into sudden and unexpected seats of authority and favor. YOU will stand, representing the King of kings, before the kings of the earth and they will desire YOUR wisdom and input in a matter.” https://elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=22902&fbclid=IwAR3b5RxL7FZb-3pf-oGKC5ycaoXeNyAR-_KgauZgj4qSxw_EoWLJCHxktLY (The immediate problem we see with this idea is that it puts all the emphasis on man. And, this person doesn’t predict that those“representing the King of kings” will give the kings of the earth the gospel! You know, we don’t see this happening right now with Pres. Trump and his spiritual advisory board, either. These men and women are supposed to be advising the President concerning matters that involve Christians, but no one has apparently cared to share the true gospel with him! All we see is Paula White touting that the man is saved when he has made it clear on several occasions that he doesn’t need to repent, but rather just tries to do better. Paula White preaches a false WOF, prosperity gospel and this is what attracted Pres. Trump when he first saw her on TV back in 2002. In addition, the only way religious people can force morality on others is through the idea of a Christian theocracy. Does anyone truly want a “Christian Taliban?” Anyone who thinks this is a good idea needs to study John Calvin in Geneva, Switzerland, the Puritans in Massachusetts, and Alexander Dowie in Zion City, IL, just for a few examples).
Now, I wanted to mention an article that appeared in Charisma magazine in May of this year. The article is entitled, “Why it is Unacceptable for Christians to Stand on the Political Sidelines.” (https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/renewing-america/76342-why-it-s-unacceptable-for-christians-to-stand-on-the-political-sidelines)
It begins by mentioning Senator James Lankford of Oklahoma who once invited an audience to "name one book in the Old Testament that is not written by, to, or about political leaders." He then offered, "I think there are three in total. I'll make you figure out the three ... Job is one." (Well, the first problem here is that Sen. Lankford was one of two senators who hosted the National Prayer breakfast held this past February 7. We remember that as part of his opening remarks he stated: “We gather together at this time under the spirit of Jesus understanding there are many faiths that are here.” We noted at that time and still feel that such a promotion of false unity is absolutely dangerous. And, the second problem is that Sen. Lankford said there are only three books in the Old Testament that were not written by, to, or about political leaders. I guess he doesn’t realize we are living under the New Covenant and our focus is not on a physical government, but rather should be on preaching the gospel and discipling converts. Lankford, along with many others, seems to be confusing the theocracy of Israel with the secular country of the United States).
The article continues -There is a staggering lack of biblically-based knowledge and impact in America's public square. Secularism, Christianity's chief competitor, thrives solely in the absence of morality, and Christians have handed over the culture and its mountains of influence to those in rebellion against God. Any casual observer will recognize that secularism's dominance of academia, newsrooms, sports, the courts, big business, Hollywood and medicine is a direct result of Christians "not doing politics.” Until Christians step into the public square, reestablishing a biblically based culture, the "sexualization" and secularization of youth, allied and abetted by Hollywood and media cliques, will continue to bring the nation to ruin. (However, Christianity and morality are not the same thing. As we have stated many times having good morals doesn’t mean a person is saved. And, then, the author’s mention of “mountains of influence” shows he is steeped in the false teachings of the Seven Mountain mandate. Since the Bible says perilous times will come in the last days, and evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse, this means God’s Word is coming to pass. And, we are not given any instructions concerning the prevention of the nation’s descent into ruin. We know better than to enter the public square and attempt to claim it for Christ. We do not slap the Name of Christ on anything secular and then proclaim it to be Christian. Our job rather is to share the gospel and snatch people out of the fire. The entire system is evil and Jesus Christ will smash it to pieces when He returns to rule and reign as we have stated).
Continuing with the article: “In founding America, Christians initiated a biblically based culture, which in turn produced outstanding men and women of character, whose customs, traditions and moral laws and standards brought forth an exceptional America. For a nation is not exalted by its military prowess or Gross Domestic Product, but by its righteousness” (Prov. 14:34). (Again, none of the author’s words here prove that these people he mentions were saved. Atheists and secular humanists can have exceptional character, morals and standards. One problem is that dominionists, particularly patriotic dominionists such as David Barton, continue to assert that the United States was founded as a Christian nation).
You know, I think the confusion arises because just as we have been saying about morals, there is much information to point to the fact that for many years America seems to have been comprised of a largely “moral and religious people.” Here are several examples: Some of the founding fathers quoted scriptures in their letters to each other; many of them attended churches; public misbehavior was punished publically as with the Puritans putting people in stocks in the public square; during colonial times the New England Primer was used to teach the alphabet, syllables, and sentence formation, and contained practice sentences such as “in Adam’s fall we sinned all;” and the majority of people will check off Christian on any form asking for their religious affiliation. However, now with that identity slipping away, we see calls for the 10 commandments and prayer to be allowed back in the schools. But, again, true believers know that neither morality nor religion can be deemed the markers of a true Christian. Matt. 7:16 says “ye shall know them by their fruits.” Gal. 5:22-23 lists the fruit of the Spirit as love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.
And, with the fruit of the Spirit in mind here are two major reasons that the United States cannot be considered a Christian nation. These points are from an article in Christianity Today:
“The first is the conquering and subjugation of Native Americans. This land was not a barren, unpopulated wilderness when Europeans arrived. From day one, there have been a variety of people here—Navajo and Sioux, Choctaw and Cherokee and more than 500 other groups. Each with a unique language, culture, and history.Each bearing the image of God. And each, one by one, mercilessly conquered and then pushed aside into reservations. There is no other way to put it. During its westward expansion, the United States signed more than 500 treaties with Native American nations, and each and every one was eventually broken unilaterally by the US. This is not national behavior one could call Christian.
Second is the enslavement of Africans, which began officially in 1641 when the Massachusetts Colony passed the “Body of Liberties” and ironically permitted slavery under certain conditions. Our Constitution recognized the legality of slavery and the unequal status of slaves with the three-fifths compromise. With this small beginning emerged a cruel system that encompassed nearly 4 million slaves by the beginning of the Civil War. It would be hard to deny that the early economic growth of our nation depended on the use of slave labor.
What should give Christians pause is the fact that “devout Christians” justified the conquering and often the slaughter of Native Americans as well as the brutal enslavement of Africans in our land. These are not incidental moments of injustice, but deliberate and steady, justified decade after decade with the Bible in one hand, and expedience in the other, by millions of “believers.”
The point is this: Can we in any way, shape, or form say that America was founded on Christian principles when its very existence and prosperity were set on a foundation of unimaginable cruelty to millions of other human beings?” (https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2018/july-web-only/july-4-christian-nation-great-terrible-galli.html) (And, I think the answer to that question is clear. So, the fact that some of the founding fathers mentioned scriptures in their correspondence, for example, does not negate these horrible examples of absolute cruelty I have just shared. Such atrocities are not committed by Bible-believing Christians as we are taught to love our enemies and to turn the other cheek).
Now, I want to mention an article that appeared at Charisma magazine on Nov. 30. The article is entitled, “Chuck Pierce Prophesies: We Are Entering a New Kingdom Era.”
https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/78996-chuck-pierce-prophesies-we-are-entering-a-new-kingdom-era?fbclid=IwAR3EZvtD0UhrzsirlqzMz8RyBm4R8N8gjMIXoJiXq0P6ap4zj4SmMj1qmU8
He says, “Speaking of government, we are approaching a new election year in the United States. One of the words for "visitation" is linked with how you cast a vote. How we vote is how we get visited as a nation in our future.
Dutch Sheets and I are presently on a 22-region journey through the United States. For the last four years, the triumphant remnant has made incredible headway. Our goal is to awaken the seeds of revival that have been sown throughout America and cause this incredible triumphant remnant to keep advancing.
And as the apostolic church matures and advances the kingdom of God in the earth, apostolic/prophetic rule will be established in territories.” (Well, Chuck Pierce is truly trying to make people feel guilty for voting the wrong way or not voting at all. How we vote is how we get visited as a nation, really? God is not dealing with nations at this time. Again, Jesus is going to smite the nations when He returns. And, then the apostolic/prophetic bunch is the triumphant remnant? What a load of rubbish! The apostolic/prophetic bunch is the main promoter of the NAR and it is heartbreaking to think of all the damage that has been done through this false teaching. And, then, he mentions the revival that is going to happen, but it will be a counterfeit one and will lead people straight into the one world religion. And, the kicker is Chuck Pierce is actually admitting what this bunch has been about from the start when he says “apostolic/prophetic rule will be established in territories.” This entire belief system is founded on man and the false authority these types think man possesses.
But, sadly, there are those who truly idolize this nation and will attack those who are supposed to be their brethren over this topic of politics. A fellow wanted to argue with me the other day on a post and said this: “Your position is a very sick one that would see America fall. It is to sit and do nothing so that the evil Democrats can take over America and spread even more of their abominations. You know, sometimes I truly wonder if people are reading their Bibles at all. Are people totally ignoring all the verses about end times that describe perilous times and evil men and seducers waxing worse and worse as I have mentioned? And, that men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. This fellow and many others apparently think Republicans can stop Bible prophecy).
This fellow continued: “God gave us Americans the right to vote for who we think would be a good President. Your effort to silence Christian voices is just plain wicked.”(Really? What about Christians in other nations? If voting is such a wonderful thing why didn’t God institute democracies all over the world? You know, sister Tammy, I don’t think God had anything to do with the fact people can vote in this nation. Having the ability to vote causes people to look to man for the solutions to this world’s problems, rather than to focus on Jesus and eternity).
And, that is all I have for this time, sister Tammy. I just pray, as you do, that people would get their focus right.