Pastors Leading Their Flocks Astray Through Politics
READING TIME: 27 MINUTES
The following are the notes to the discussion found at this link (https://www.facebook.com/tammy.cheetham.77/videos/497575720742141/) for anyone who would like to study the subject more in depth.
Yes, we wanted to discuss some of the pastors who are asserting that Donald Trump is saved, either by directly stating this, or by leading people to believe so. And, then later on in the discussion we will focus on believers and the political system specifically.
Now, some might wonder why we would bother to discuss this; why is it important to understand that he isn’t saved as we will demonstrate later in the discussion. Well, we have noticed that when evangelicals think he is saved, they then think God is blessing this nation through him; that God put him in office for such a time as this; that everything he does is ordained by God; and, even when his actions as a president are not godly (and, we will mention a few of these later; not speaking of personal sins), we can just look the other way, supposedly, because he is fulfilling a greater purpose. And, all of these beliefs are actually quite dangerous to hold because they cause people to focus on a man, and to get caught up in the political system, instead of focusing on Jesus alone.
So, let’s begin by discussing whether Donald Trump is saved or not. I realize many people think we have no right doing this, but God’s Word clearly says we are to judge righteous judgment in John 7:24 and that we can know people by their fruits in Matt. 7. You know, most people have no trouble recognizing that unbelievers out in the world aren’t saved, but when someone who either makes a confession of belief himself or herself, or when others identify someone as saved, then people want to start a brawl almost if we question the person’s salvation.
And, we are not saying these things to be unkind, and we are not stating Donald Trump’s final destination because that will be determined by God alone. We obviously pray for him to get saved. But, as believers we must be able to state how a person is saved and what someone must believe in order to be saved. And, then to recognize when someone is not doing or believing such. I am sure the listeners have seen posts asserting that there’s a huge mission field within what calls itself church. We can look at the entertainment and the false teachings in the modern church and know these people haven’t heard the true gospel. We can recognize that many are going through life believing they are saved when they, sadly, are not. And, so I hope the listeners can understand our statements concerning Donald Trump are not vindictive, but rather we pray someone will truly lead him to Christ.
Now, I think most of the listeners will remember when moderator Frank Luntz asked Donald Trump whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness for his actions. His response was, "I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't"). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKLVIm7Q0IQ) (Now, some people might have heard this and thought isn’t that nice he wants to make things right if he does something wrong? But, true believers know when we do something wrong, when we sin, first and foremost we need to repent and ask forgiveness from God. There is no way we can leave God out of the picture).
Trump went on to say that while he hasn't asked God for forgiveness, he does participate in Holy Communion. “When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"
Sister Tammy, I am going to quote something you said in our discussion entitled “Donald Trump: Deceitful Worker” where we previously shared this information and we also shared these points in our last discussion. “WHERE IS JESUS IN THIS? We cannot make the wrongs right by our own self, we look to what Jesus did on the cross He then forgives and gives the power to live right, even repent and ask for forgiveness through His Son. So we MUST bring God into the picture, you see how this is another gospel! We cannot save ourselves!
The communion does not cleanse anyone from their sins. This is a works-based salvation and the only way we can be cleansed is by being washed in the blood of Jesus. We take communion to REMEMBER the sacrifice Jesus did; this act of taking communion cannot make anyone cleansed. Taking your little cracker is not a form of asking for forgiveness. Only Jesus can forgive sinners, not us doing anything, even anything religious. And, I thank you for these points, sister Tammy.
In addition, in Matt. 7:15 Jesus is warning about false prophets. In the following verses He tells us how we can recognize them. I want to read Matt. 7:16, 17 and 20: “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”
So, let’s examine some of his beliefs and some of his fruit (and, again, I am not referring to any personal sins here):
In an interview for 60 Minutes with Lesley Stahl in November of 2016 president-elect Trump said, "I'm pro-life. My judges will be pro-life." Pressed on the possibility of overruling Roe v Wade and outlawing abortion, Trump said the issue "will go back to the states." (And, we brought that point out in our discussion concerning Judge Kavanaugh). But, he assured Lesley Stahl that "it will take a long time." With that, Stahl noted that some states might completely outlaw abortions and Trump simply responded, "Well, they'll perhaps have to go to another state." (So, we would have to ask if this truly sounds like someone who is pro-life?)
Then, when, asked about LGBTQ issues, Trump defended himself. "I have been in their corner," he said. Regarding homosexual "marriage," Trump flatly stated, "It's settled law," and "I'm fine with that." (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/trump-i-will-appoint-pro-life-justices-but-gay-marriage-is-settled-law) (Obviously, we would note, however, that a truly born-again believer would NOT be fine with gay marriage in any way, shape or form).
Sadly, though, Pres. Trump is obviously fine with homosexuality since he has nominated two openly gay judges to the federal bench since being elected.
From an article at nbc news.com we learn that Pres. Trump recently announced another wave of judicial nominees, and among them is an openly gay conservative, Patrick Bumatay. Trump nominated Bumatay to serve on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, based in San Francisco, the nation’s largest federal appeals court. Bumatay is the second openly gay person Trump has nominated for the federal bench, according to the Washington Blade. The first was Mary Rowland, a magistrate judge who Trump nominated to be on the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois in June; she is currently waiting to be confirmed by the Senate. (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-nominates-openly-gay-conservative-federal-appeals-court-n920831)
And, then, in January of this year, Pres. Trump congratulated the Log Cabin Republicans, the largest group representing LGBT conservatives, on their fortieth anniversary. (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/01/18/president-trump-congratulates-log-cabin-republicans-40th-anniversary/)
But, the Log Cabin Republicans exist to “transform the GOP” to support same-sex “marriage” and other LGBT causes, so why would a “Christian” president send them a letter of congratulations for doing such ungodly work for 40 years? (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/trump-congratulates-gay-republican-group-on-its-40th-anniversary)
Sister Tammy, would you like share a bit of what you have prepared at this time, please?
Some laws of the land are consistent with biblical principles, so we can see why Paul would have said that we should be subject to the governing authorities, if this doesn’t mean disobeying God. However, a person who votes cannot ask a political party to apply his vote to the specific policies that he believes are consistent with the Bible. A voter, for example, cannot say, “Just apply my vote to your policies against abortion but not your policies concerning drugs, alcohol, gay marriage, freedom of religion etc. As a result, one’s vote contributes towards everything that candidate stands for, whether the voter sees this or not. There will be compromise because of the whole system one’s vote is given, and therefore we can see this is not biblical at all. Does it make sense to give voting support to a political leader whose “faith-based” programs oppose those of the True Faith? For instance, both Democrats and Republicans have official organizations that support the gay lifestyle—National Stonewall Democrats – and, then like you said, the Log Cabin Republicans. So, we have to be very careful. When we are giving our vote to something, what are we actually giving it to? https://www.stonewalldems.org/ and Log Cabin Republicans - www.lcr.org
Thank you very much for that, sister Tammy.
Now, I want to give some more examples of Pres. Trump’s rotten fruit and these concern idolatry:
One example is that many people were so excited about Pres. Trump making statements concerning faith, God, and Jesus at the National Day of Prayer service held in the Rose Garden on May 3 of this year. For some odd reason these same people were not bothered by the fact that this was an ecumenical prayer service as evidenced by the following: Hindu priest Narayanachar Digalakote said this, “Namaste. All of us are divine. I bow to the divinity in all of you.” Mormon Jean B. Bingham, Rabbi Levi Shemtov of the Rabbinical Council of Greater Washington, Archbishop of Washington Cardinal Donald Wuerl, also “prayed” at this occasion. (https://www.facebook.com/100007541057587/videos/2015898148671534) (Some apparently think God doesn't mind if we join in with these ecumenical events. Some may think God honors those prayers at these occasions, but He does not. I pray for people to wake up to the fact the groundwork for the one world religion is being laid before our very eyes and this is the deception the president brings as tool of the devil, actually).
On May 15, 2018 he issued the following statement as part of his Presidential Message on Ramadan: “Ramadan reminds us of the richness Muslims add to the religious tapestry of American life. In the United States, we are all blessed to live under a Constitution that fosters religious liberty and respects religious practice. Our Constitution ensures Muslims can observe Ramadan in accordance with the dictates of conscience and unimpeded by government. By doing so, the Constitution also furnishes varied opportunities for all Americans to deepen their understanding of the human soul.” (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/presidential-message-ramadan/). (But, Christians are not supposed to respect or tolerate false religions. Religious liberty is an affront to God, plain and simple. And, sister Tammy, I want to quote something you said from our discussion entitled, “America’s Religious Liberty: From God or Satan?” “Freedom of Religion may as well be called coexist because even though you can do nothing about what others choose to do or believe, you are actually giving your yes to all other religions just so you have the right to have yours. It is as though we can all get along and just allow for error to go on in this world whereas in the past and biblical times people lost their lives for standing for the truth in the face of persecution. Nowadays people want to all go along to get along and cause no ruckus!” And, thank you for that, sister Tammy).
And, then, we want to mention that the president hosted his first White House dinner for Ramadan on June 6 of this year. He made the following statement there - "In gathering together this evening, we honor a sacred tradition of one of the world's great religions" - while addressing an intimate audience that included Cabinet members and ambassadors from many Muslim-majority nations including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-hosts-first-iftar-dinner-recognizes-islam-one-world-s-n880841). (But, obviously, a Christian would not host a dinner for adherents of a pagan religion. Again, many in this country hold to the fallacy that in order for us to maintain our freedoms as Christians we must tolerate all religions. But, realistically, that line of thinking says in order for us to have freedom to worship we will support someone else’s blasphemy of the one true God.
And, then, I want to mention something I posted about a few days ago. I had seen a post on Facebook that made the following statement: “Christians stop saying, ‘I don’t discuss politics.’ If you ignore politics now, politics will erase your right to be a Christian.”
And, this is one of the times we just want to scream because something is so ridiculous. Anyone’s right to become a Christian did NOT come from a man, or from any political system, but rather from the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the One Who bled and died on a cruel cross to pay for the sins of mankind and that we might be reconciled to God! You know, sister Tammy, it’s quite scary to think what it’s going to take to get people to stop focusing on politics like this. And, these pastors who are leading their congregations to do so…And, we say pastors sometimes in air quotes because we believe these are leaders in false churches. And, we say that because of the ecumenism they’re involved in, the dominionism they’re involved in; you can’t say, oh, I’m preaching the cross, I’m preaching salvation, and add all the false teachings in together. The whole business about chewing up the meat and spitting out the bones; that is not Biblical).
Then, going back to the President’s inauguration ceremony, the following false teachers prayed: Paula White - Word of Faith; Samuel Rodriguez - New Apostolic Reformation; Bishop Wayne T. Jackson - prosperity gospel; Cardinal Timothy Dolan – Catholic; Rabbi Marvin Hier – Jewish; and Franklin Graham – purveyor of ecumenical and dominionist false teachings. (https://religionnews.com/2017/01/19/whos-praying-at-trumps-inauguration-a-diverse-mix-of-supporters-critics-and-firsts/) (And, someone might say, well, he’s the president and he has to recognize other religions and so forth due to the Bill of Rights. But, again, the Bill of Rights means all people have religious liberty in this nation, but this idea is not from God. Did God give the Israelites freedom to worship other gods? Or, did He finally send them into captivity for doing so?)
Now, we want to specifically mention the pastors and/or ministries that are asserting that Donald Trump is saved, either by directly stating this, or by leading people to believe so. We cannot too strongly say these are leading people to focus on man and they are preparing people to accept the antichrist.
The first example is from a video in Sept. of 2015 of several pastors who are praying over Donald Trump. Some of those gathered together are Robert Jeffress, Paula White, Kenneth Copeland, Jentezen Franklin, Steve Muncy, Darrell Scott, and Lance Wallnau. Several pray that God will give him wisdom and direction for the campaign. But, then, Paula White specifically prays this: “Father, let him have a greater encounter with You; a greater encounter with the Spirit of God.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ18exdhR6I) (But, no one has the Holy Spirit, or can have the Holy Spirit poured out on them, or be filled with the Holy Spirit, however you want to say it, unless they are first saved. Ephesians 1:13 says, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.” And, so all present are responsible for allowing people to think Donald Trump is saved and being used by God because if they didn’t agree with any of these prayers at that time they could have made public statements and disassociated themselves from the group promoting Donald Trump period. But, several of these are on his spiritual advisory board so they haven’t disassociated themselves).
Additionally, concerning Paula White, we have the following statements she made in an interview concerning her relationship with Donald Trump:
“This guy is hungry for God. As they talked further, she learned that he had attended church as a youth and been confirmed in the Presbyterian Church — so he had some of the basics of the faith. He seemed curious about how her pragmatic, businesslike take on religion could relate to his life.
Then, in 2004, an opportunity came. Trump had asked her if she was ever up in New York. “The Apprentice,” a reality show produced by and starring Trump, had started, and she says he wanted her to be on the set, especially during the first season, for informal Bible studies or prayer for whoever wanted it. So, she went and prayed for a lot of people. Including Donald Trump.
During one of their early New York encounters, “I walked in and said, ‘I don’t want your money, I don’t want your fame, I want your soul,’ ” she remembers. “He just looked at me.” The two clicked, and somewhere along the line, White apparently got her wish, though she is reluctant to offer further details.
“Yes, there was an absolute moment that he received Jesus as Lord and Savior,” she says. “I have led many high-profile people to the Lord.” (https://www.thelily.com/she-led-trump-to-christ-the-rise-of-the-televangelist-who-advises-the-white-house/)
Next, is James Dobson. In an article from June of 2016 we read the following statements by him: "There are a lot of people ministering to Donald Trump personally. ... He did accept a relationship with Christ. I know the person who led him to Christ. And that’s fairly recent. I don’t know when it was, but it has not been long. I believe he really made a commitment. But he’s a baby Christian. We all need to be praying for him, especially if there’s a possibility of him being the next executive officer."
Then, after news of Trump's alleged conversion broke, Dobson felt compelled to clarify his comments, issuing a statement walking back his comments somewhat and providing the name of the pastor who supposedly led Trump to conversion and that was Paula White.
"Only the Lord knows the condition of a person's heart. I can only tell you what I've heard. First, Trump appears to be tender to things of the Spirit. I also hear that Paula White has known Trump for years and that she personally led him to Christ. Do I know that for sure? No. Do I know the details of that alleged conversion? I can't say that I do. If anything, this man is a baby Christian who doesn't have a clue about how believers think, talk and act.” (https://www.dailywire.com/news/6944/dr-james-dobson-trump-recently-accepted-christ-james-barrett) (But, that is such an odd statement, that he is a baby Christian because if he believed this, why isn’t James Dobson offering him true Biblical counsel? It’s the saddest thing that Pres. Trump has this board of “spiritual advisors” who aren’t truly leading him to the Lord or giving him Biblical counsel).
And, next we have the recent situation in the news concerning the freed pastor Andrew Brunson and his prayer for Pres. Trump: “Lord, God, I ask that You pour out Your Holy Spirit on Pres. Trump; that You give him supernatural wisdom to accomplish all the plans You have for this country and for him; I ask You give him wisdom on how to lead this country into righteousness; I ask that You give him wisdom and perseverance and courage to stand for truth; I ask that You protect him from slander, from enemies, from those that would undermine. I ask that You make him a great blessing to this country…And, we bless him. May he be a great blessing to our country. In Jesus’ Name, we bless you, amen.”
Noreen Brunson, Andrew’s wife then said: “I want to pray that the Spirit of the Lord would rest on the president; the Spirit of wisdom and understanding; the Spirit of counsel and might; the Spirit of knowledge and fear of the Lord, amen.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rCfwM8LbL0&feature=youtu.be) (But, as I already stated with the first example, no one has the Holy Spirit or can have the Holy Spirit poured out on them unless they are first saved).
And, w have Tony Perkins, founder of the Family Research Council, posted an article concerning Andrew Brunson and the circumstances around him being set free. He also included Brunson’s prayer in his article so he apparently has no problems with someone praying over Pres. Trump and using words to indicate he is saved. (https://www.frcaction.org/get.cfm?i=WA18J31&f=WU18J05)
And, then, on Oct. 15 we have a post on Frances Swaggart’s Facebook page which reads: “My family and I are so thankful that Pastor Andrew Brunson is home, safely, and reunited with his family. Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, was with Pastor Brunson on behalf of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom at his hearing on Friday, and accompanied him home. He said the experience of seeing the pastor released was surreal and he was thankful that the prayers of millions were answered and for the resolve of this administration to bring him home. Mr. Perkins said, “Not only did this administration, this president, send help to Pastor Brunson and bring him home, but it sent a message of hope to the persecuted around the globe that America cares about, number one, the well-being of Americans, but number two, we will no longer sacrifice the fundamental human right of religious freedom on the altar of globalism. This was a big event, and the president and his team needs to be commended.” (And, of course, that was a lot of praise for the president, we would note).
I believe that seeing Pastor Brunson get down on one knee and pray for the president of the United States in the Oval Office inspired Christians around the world, as did the words of his prayer. (And, we must note that it was quite odd to see Andrew Brunson get down on his knees while praying, but Pres. Trump did not do so. I wanted to make sure to say she included the words to the prayer in this post, but I didn’t want to reread them).
And, then, here are a few comments on Frances Swaggart’s: I can see that Pastor Brunson gave President Trump a double anointing! President Trump was chosen and anointed by God. God's hand is upon him in a supernatural way!
Such a beautiful sight to see Pastor Brunson freed and him praying over our President Donald J. Trump who always accepts these prayers with such a humble spirit! Our President is becoming a really good man, and I believe that he loves our Lord and will end up being the best Christian President our country has ever had!
It is wonderful to see prayer "in the name of Jesus" in our White House! I pray God will continue to have mercy on our nation and expose the corrupt that seek to destroy this President.
Should have baptized Trump while he was at it! (But, we truly see the danger of people being misled concerning Pres. Trump. The adoration of him in these statements is quite evident and it is heartbreaking to see).
One person had the nerve to speak the truth concerning the previous statement of baptizing Pres. Trump as he said, “He has to be saved first.” Sadly, so many people just going along with the flow, bragging on this situation, thinking it’s wonderful, and not even thinking we need to be Biblically correct here.
Then, as we mentioned in our last discussion, Dr. Darrell Scott, senior pastor of New Spirit Revival Center in Cleveland, Ohio, stated that Pres. Trump considers himself a Christian on the Frances and Friends program. Dr. Scott said Pres. Trump believes all the basic tenets of the Christian faith and listed several of them. However, his sanctification is still a work in progress. He also stated that Donald Trump has respect and reverence for God and the men and women of God and for Christianity as a whole. He believes pastors have a higher calling. He tells pastors I’m not where you guys are. (http://www.sonlifetv.com/archives.html) Frances and Friends for Oct. 5).
Well, that is all I have for this portion of the discussion and now, Sister Tammy, would you present the information you have gathered at this time concerning involvement for a believer in politics, please?
As a born-again Christian, many are asking questions and wondering are we to be involved in politics and where do we stand with the governments of this world? We must carefully examine the Word of God for anything that we have questions about as a believer because this is our first and final authority. We never go outside of the Word and we always make sure to keep in line with the whole counsel of God and not just tear bits out to make it suit our own ideas and beliefs.
We need to look at some of the questions that arise in this area concerning politics and the Christian and with careful conclusion and seeking the Word I can state that we have no Scriptural mandate to be involved in the political system we have in operation today.
Many would like to take the examples of Daniel, Esther and Joseph as proof that we are to be involved with this system, but we must look at the time, the context and the reasons why these were in these positions at this time. Also, we must look at who put these Biblical examples in these positions so that there is no confusion as to who is in control of everything that is going on in this world that is soon to be renewed by fire!
God was the King of Israel in the Old Testament, during which time He worked through a physical nation upon this earth. Moses, Joshua, the judges and the kings of Israel and Judah, among others, were leaders in Israel. Since they were appointed and since they ruled God’s people under His government, they do not provide examples supporting participation in secular political systems. Moses was a ruler in Egypt, but this was before his conversion and he did not seek that political office. And once Moses was called, he found that he could no longer participate in that office.
God placed these here for His purposes, for the Jewish people and Israel. God used Daniel to show what is going to happen in our day and knowing what is happening now was culminating even then! A One World Religious Order like we often speak about! Daniel never obeyed the system. He never defiled himself with the king’s meat and he prayed despite the call to disobey God. He trusted in the Lord and His purposes prevailed. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were taken captive by the Babylonians. They had to risk their lives for issues related to dietary laws and prayer. They were all appointed to their positions; therefore, their situations do not establish a precedent for God’s people.
Joseph was taken to Egypt as a slave and was made a servant in the house of Potiphar. After being imprisoned, Joseph was appointed to an office by Pharaoh, a dictator. Joseph never ran for office. Nor was he voted in. God established Joseph. This certainly did not establish a precedent among his descendants.
Esther was told by Mordecai not to reveal her lineage to the king. She found favor in the king’s sight and eventually was chosen as a queen. God clearly blessed her and enabled her to have influence as the king’s wife, resulting in the protection of His people. This did not lead to a precedent where Israelite women were encouraged to try to become queens or get involved in Persian politics.
This was also to show these kings they are not in control and God will place whom He pleases in positions. The gospel came to us through all this in the end and now we have this, then what are we doing with it? Do we think we have to join in where God is telling us to avoid, joining with people in political positions claiming they know our Saviour? No! We are to mark and avoid these because they confuse people to think this is what Christianity looks like. We are to respect people, but not their faulty ideas of God. God still has a plan for the Jewish people, but we can clearly see the Bible tells us it will be Him that acts to save them in the end because all nations will turn against them.
Do we really understand the times we are in? Do we really think God is not coming back to smash all this to pieces what is going to get worse and soon bring in the Antichrist and Mark of the Beast? We do really need to study and be careful not to use examples that were used for a specific purpose and stick them to the times they prophesied were coming on this earth! I do pray for leaders and people in positions and respect them as people, my desire is people will be saved from the world's system and to receive eternal life, yet in saying this, I do not respect false Christianity, false beliefs and Satan’s ministers that come as righteous workers.
The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus would be born into this world as God’s Son and He would come from a specific people. Jesus was from the foundation of this world and always was coming and has come and paid the sin debt as prophesied and was buried and rose again after three days! He will soon return and be back to put this world’s system down.
The Bible tells us that God’s Kingdom is not of this world in John 18:36. We look to the government of the Kingdom of God and the laws by which it stands for. The fullness of God’s government will not be visibly established on earth until the future. The state to which the believer currently belongs is not antagonistic to secular governmental authority, where it does not contradict the word of God in what is right, meaning we do not murder, steal from others, etc. Nevertheless, the believer’s values, laws and allegiance are contrary to the world, which is antagonistic to God. We are waiting for a theocracy, “whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10).
And, like I have already stated about voting, some of the laws are consistent with Biblical principles, so we can see why Paul would have said that we should be subject to the governing authorities, if this doesn’t mean disobeying God in that process, as I have explained. But, there may be some things, like I’ve stated, that are right, but that whole system we cannot just give our vote to. Like I’ve stated, yes, just apply my vote to your policies against abortion and gay marriage, but just forget these things over here. But, we can’t just do that. When you vote for someone, you give that candidate your approval, you’re saying yes to what that whole system stands for. This is why we don’t do it. And, we have some that would claim that you’re not even saved if you don’t vote. How ridiculous. When we look at all of this evidence and when we read the Word of God. Actually, they want to turn that around. Not to be mean, but examine yourself and see whether you be in the faith. You know, the laws for Israel came from God and we can see today that none of the physical nations or national leaders represent God and His people, yet members of the Body of Christ are legal citizens of physical nations. There is only one Kingdom that can represent the interest of God, His laws and His Church—the future Kingdom of God where we hasten that day of its coming. This world’s going to get worse. The Bible tells us the system of this world is contrary to God’s system and people getting caught up in this are causing so much division within the body of Christ. You know, it is just crazy how people would just reject their brethren for a vote, for this. Honestly, it’s ridiculous. But, I just pray like you do, sister Connie, that the Lord would open people’s eyes…This is Bible. We just stick with the Word of God. It doesn’t matter what people say. We just pray for souls.
(Again, people just ripping scriptures out of the Old Testament; people taking them out of context. How many times have we heard people use the phrase, “for such a time as this,” concerning Pres. Trump? Besides them saying he is saved. Some of them won’t go that far. Some of them will not say that he is saved, but they do want to throw in there, oh, God is using him to bless this nation. It shows a true lack of Biblical understanding; just take these scriptures out of context; just rip them out of the Old Testament. It was mainly Lance Wallnau, who wanted to say that Pres. Trump was Cyrus, because Cyrus was mentioned in Isa. 45 and Pres. Trump is the 45th president. But, again, as we’ve mentioned many times, there were not chapters and verses in the Bible when it was written. Those were not instituted until centuries later so you cannot apply that concept. But, so many things that are just truly heartbreaking we see happening in what calls itself the modern church world. But, we continue to pray; we continue to ask the Lord to open people’s eyes to stay focused on Jesus Christ and His soon return. It is obvious that those who are focusing on man, and some type of a deliverer or savior, what will be the end of that? With the Antichrist, that’s all that can be leading to because we see so much leading to that. Obviously, we are in an antichrist system now, but these types of things are just preparing people to actually look to a man).
READING TIME: 27 MINUTES
The following are the notes to the discussion found at this link (https://www.facebook.com/tammy.cheetham.77/videos/497575720742141/) for anyone who would like to study the subject more in depth.
Yes, we wanted to discuss some of the pastors who are asserting that Donald Trump is saved, either by directly stating this, or by leading people to believe so. And, then later on in the discussion we will focus on believers and the political system specifically.
Now, some might wonder why we would bother to discuss this; why is it important to understand that he isn’t saved as we will demonstrate later in the discussion. Well, we have noticed that when evangelicals think he is saved, they then think God is blessing this nation through him; that God put him in office for such a time as this; that everything he does is ordained by God; and, even when his actions as a president are not godly (and, we will mention a few of these later; not speaking of personal sins), we can just look the other way, supposedly, because he is fulfilling a greater purpose. And, all of these beliefs are actually quite dangerous to hold because they cause people to focus on a man, and to get caught up in the political system, instead of focusing on Jesus alone.
So, let’s begin by discussing whether Donald Trump is saved or not. I realize many people think we have no right doing this, but God’s Word clearly says we are to judge righteous judgment in John 7:24 and that we can know people by their fruits in Matt. 7. You know, most people have no trouble recognizing that unbelievers out in the world aren’t saved, but when someone who either makes a confession of belief himself or herself, or when others identify someone as saved, then people want to start a brawl almost if we question the person’s salvation.
And, we are not saying these things to be unkind, and we are not stating Donald Trump’s final destination because that will be determined by God alone. We obviously pray for him to get saved. But, as believers we must be able to state how a person is saved and what someone must believe in order to be saved. And, then to recognize when someone is not doing or believing such. I am sure the listeners have seen posts asserting that there’s a huge mission field within what calls itself church. We can look at the entertainment and the false teachings in the modern church and know these people haven’t heard the true gospel. We can recognize that many are going through life believing they are saved when they, sadly, are not. And, so I hope the listeners can understand our statements concerning Donald Trump are not vindictive, but rather we pray someone will truly lead him to Christ.
Now, I think most of the listeners will remember when moderator Frank Luntz asked Donald Trump whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness for his actions. His response was, "I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't"). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKLVIm7Q0IQ) (Now, some people might have heard this and thought isn’t that nice he wants to make things right if he does something wrong? But, true believers know when we do something wrong, when we sin, first and foremost we need to repent and ask forgiveness from God. There is no way we can leave God out of the picture).
Trump went on to say that while he hasn't asked God for forgiveness, he does participate in Holy Communion. “When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"
Sister Tammy, I am going to quote something you said in our discussion entitled “Donald Trump: Deceitful Worker” where we previously shared this information and we also shared these points in our last discussion. “WHERE IS JESUS IN THIS? We cannot make the wrongs right by our own self, we look to what Jesus did on the cross He then forgives and gives the power to live right, even repent and ask for forgiveness through His Son. So we MUST bring God into the picture, you see how this is another gospel! We cannot save ourselves!
The communion does not cleanse anyone from their sins. This is a works-based salvation and the only way we can be cleansed is by being washed in the blood of Jesus. We take communion to REMEMBER the sacrifice Jesus did; this act of taking communion cannot make anyone cleansed. Taking your little cracker is not a form of asking for forgiveness. Only Jesus can forgive sinners, not us doing anything, even anything religious. And, I thank you for these points, sister Tammy.
In addition, in Matt. 7:15 Jesus is warning about false prophets. In the following verses He tells us how we can recognize them. I want to read Matt. 7:16, 17 and 20: “Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”
So, let’s examine some of his beliefs and some of his fruit (and, again, I am not referring to any personal sins here):
In an interview for 60 Minutes with Lesley Stahl in November of 2016 president-elect Trump said, "I'm pro-life. My judges will be pro-life." Pressed on the possibility of overruling Roe v Wade and outlawing abortion, Trump said the issue "will go back to the states." (And, we brought that point out in our discussion concerning Judge Kavanaugh). But, he assured Lesley Stahl that "it will take a long time." With that, Stahl noted that some states might completely outlaw abortions and Trump simply responded, "Well, they'll perhaps have to go to another state." (So, we would have to ask if this truly sounds like someone who is pro-life?)
Then, when, asked about LGBTQ issues, Trump defended himself. "I have been in their corner," he said. Regarding homosexual "marriage," Trump flatly stated, "It's settled law," and "I'm fine with that." (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/trump-i-will-appoint-pro-life-justices-but-gay-marriage-is-settled-law) (Obviously, we would note, however, that a truly born-again believer would NOT be fine with gay marriage in any way, shape or form).
Sadly, though, Pres. Trump is obviously fine with homosexuality since he has nominated two openly gay judges to the federal bench since being elected.
From an article at nbc news.com we learn that Pres. Trump recently announced another wave of judicial nominees, and among them is an openly gay conservative, Patrick Bumatay. Trump nominated Bumatay to serve on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, based in San Francisco, the nation’s largest federal appeals court. Bumatay is the second openly gay person Trump has nominated for the federal bench, according to the Washington Blade. The first was Mary Rowland, a magistrate judge who Trump nominated to be on the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Illinois in June; she is currently waiting to be confirmed by the Senate. (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-nominates-openly-gay-conservative-federal-appeals-court-n920831)
And, then, in January of this year, Pres. Trump congratulated the Log Cabin Republicans, the largest group representing LGBT conservatives, on their fortieth anniversary. (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/01/18/president-trump-congratulates-log-cabin-republicans-40th-anniversary/)
But, the Log Cabin Republicans exist to “transform the GOP” to support same-sex “marriage” and other LGBT causes, so why would a “Christian” president send them a letter of congratulations for doing such ungodly work for 40 years? (https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/trump-congratulates-gay-republican-group-on-its-40th-anniversary)
Sister Tammy, would you like share a bit of what you have prepared at this time, please?
Some laws of the land are consistent with biblical principles, so we can see why Paul would have said that we should be subject to the governing authorities, if this doesn’t mean disobeying God. However, a person who votes cannot ask a political party to apply his vote to the specific policies that he believes are consistent with the Bible. A voter, for example, cannot say, “Just apply my vote to your policies against abortion but not your policies concerning drugs, alcohol, gay marriage, freedom of religion etc. As a result, one’s vote contributes towards everything that candidate stands for, whether the voter sees this or not. There will be compromise because of the whole system one’s vote is given, and therefore we can see this is not biblical at all. Does it make sense to give voting support to a political leader whose “faith-based” programs oppose those of the True Faith? For instance, both Democrats and Republicans have official organizations that support the gay lifestyle—National Stonewall Democrats – and, then like you said, the Log Cabin Republicans. So, we have to be very careful. When we are giving our vote to something, what are we actually giving it to? https://www.stonewalldems.org/ and Log Cabin Republicans - www.lcr.org
Thank you very much for that, sister Tammy.
Now, I want to give some more examples of Pres. Trump’s rotten fruit and these concern idolatry:
One example is that many people were so excited about Pres. Trump making statements concerning faith, God, and Jesus at the National Day of Prayer service held in the Rose Garden on May 3 of this year. For some odd reason these same people were not bothered by the fact that this was an ecumenical prayer service as evidenced by the following: Hindu priest Narayanachar Digalakote said this, “Namaste. All of us are divine. I bow to the divinity in all of you.” Mormon Jean B. Bingham, Rabbi Levi Shemtov of the Rabbinical Council of Greater Washington, Archbishop of Washington Cardinal Donald Wuerl, also “prayed” at this occasion. (https://www.facebook.com/100007541057587/videos/2015898148671534) (Some apparently think God doesn't mind if we join in with these ecumenical events. Some may think God honors those prayers at these occasions, but He does not. I pray for people to wake up to the fact the groundwork for the one world religion is being laid before our very eyes and this is the deception the president brings as tool of the devil, actually).
On May 15, 2018 he issued the following statement as part of his Presidential Message on Ramadan: “Ramadan reminds us of the richness Muslims add to the religious tapestry of American life. In the United States, we are all blessed to live under a Constitution that fosters religious liberty and respects religious practice. Our Constitution ensures Muslims can observe Ramadan in accordance with the dictates of conscience and unimpeded by government. By doing so, the Constitution also furnishes varied opportunities for all Americans to deepen their understanding of the human soul.” (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/presidential-message-ramadan/). (But, Christians are not supposed to respect or tolerate false religions. Religious liberty is an affront to God, plain and simple. And, sister Tammy, I want to quote something you said from our discussion entitled, “America’s Religious Liberty: From God or Satan?” “Freedom of Religion may as well be called coexist because even though you can do nothing about what others choose to do or believe, you are actually giving your yes to all other religions just so you have the right to have yours. It is as though we can all get along and just allow for error to go on in this world whereas in the past and biblical times people lost their lives for standing for the truth in the face of persecution. Nowadays people want to all go along to get along and cause no ruckus!” And, thank you for that, sister Tammy).
And, then, we want to mention that the president hosted his first White House dinner for Ramadan on June 6 of this year. He made the following statement there - "In gathering together this evening, we honor a sacred tradition of one of the world's great religions" - while addressing an intimate audience that included Cabinet members and ambassadors from many Muslim-majority nations including Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan and the United Arab Emirates. (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-hosts-first-iftar-dinner-recognizes-islam-one-world-s-n880841). (But, obviously, a Christian would not host a dinner for adherents of a pagan religion. Again, many in this country hold to the fallacy that in order for us to maintain our freedoms as Christians we must tolerate all religions. But, realistically, that line of thinking says in order for us to have freedom to worship we will support someone else’s blasphemy of the one true God.
And, then, I want to mention something I posted about a few days ago. I had seen a post on Facebook that made the following statement: “Christians stop saying, ‘I don’t discuss politics.’ If you ignore politics now, politics will erase your right to be a Christian.”
And, this is one of the times we just want to scream because something is so ridiculous. Anyone’s right to become a Christian did NOT come from a man, or from any political system, but rather from the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the One Who bled and died on a cruel cross to pay for the sins of mankind and that we might be reconciled to God! You know, sister Tammy, it’s quite scary to think what it’s going to take to get people to stop focusing on politics like this. And, these pastors who are leading their congregations to do so…And, we say pastors sometimes in air quotes because we believe these are leaders in false churches. And, we say that because of the ecumenism they’re involved in, the dominionism they’re involved in; you can’t say, oh, I’m preaching the cross, I’m preaching salvation, and add all the false teachings in together. The whole business about chewing up the meat and spitting out the bones; that is not Biblical).
Then, going back to the President’s inauguration ceremony, the following false teachers prayed: Paula White - Word of Faith; Samuel Rodriguez - New Apostolic Reformation; Bishop Wayne T. Jackson - prosperity gospel; Cardinal Timothy Dolan – Catholic; Rabbi Marvin Hier – Jewish; and Franklin Graham – purveyor of ecumenical and dominionist false teachings. (https://religionnews.com/2017/01/19/whos-praying-at-trumps-inauguration-a-diverse-mix-of-supporters-critics-and-firsts/) (And, someone might say, well, he’s the president and he has to recognize other religions and so forth due to the Bill of Rights. But, again, the Bill of Rights means all people have religious liberty in this nation, but this idea is not from God. Did God give the Israelites freedom to worship other gods? Or, did He finally send them into captivity for doing so?)
Now, we want to specifically mention the pastors and/or ministries that are asserting that Donald Trump is saved, either by directly stating this, or by leading people to believe so. We cannot too strongly say these are leading people to focus on man and they are preparing people to accept the antichrist.
The first example is from a video in Sept. of 2015 of several pastors who are praying over Donald Trump. Some of those gathered together are Robert Jeffress, Paula White, Kenneth Copeland, Jentezen Franklin, Steve Muncy, Darrell Scott, and Lance Wallnau. Several pray that God will give him wisdom and direction for the campaign. But, then, Paula White specifically prays this: “Father, let him have a greater encounter with You; a greater encounter with the Spirit of God.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ18exdhR6I) (But, no one has the Holy Spirit, or can have the Holy Spirit poured out on them, or be filled with the Holy Spirit, however you want to say it, unless they are first saved. Ephesians 1:13 says, “In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.” And, so all present are responsible for allowing people to think Donald Trump is saved and being used by God because if they didn’t agree with any of these prayers at that time they could have made public statements and disassociated themselves from the group promoting Donald Trump period. But, several of these are on his spiritual advisory board so they haven’t disassociated themselves).
Additionally, concerning Paula White, we have the following statements she made in an interview concerning her relationship with Donald Trump:
“This guy is hungry for God. As they talked further, she learned that he had attended church as a youth and been confirmed in the Presbyterian Church — so he had some of the basics of the faith. He seemed curious about how her pragmatic, businesslike take on religion could relate to his life.
Then, in 2004, an opportunity came. Trump had asked her if she was ever up in New York. “The Apprentice,” a reality show produced by and starring Trump, had started, and she says he wanted her to be on the set, especially during the first season, for informal Bible studies or prayer for whoever wanted it. So, she went and prayed for a lot of people. Including Donald Trump.
During one of their early New York encounters, “I walked in and said, ‘I don’t want your money, I don’t want your fame, I want your soul,’ ” she remembers. “He just looked at me.” The two clicked, and somewhere along the line, White apparently got her wish, though she is reluctant to offer further details.
“Yes, there was an absolute moment that he received Jesus as Lord and Savior,” she says. “I have led many high-profile people to the Lord.” (https://www.thelily.com/she-led-trump-to-christ-the-rise-of-the-televangelist-who-advises-the-white-house/)
Next, is James Dobson. In an article from June of 2016 we read the following statements by him: "There are a lot of people ministering to Donald Trump personally. ... He did accept a relationship with Christ. I know the person who led him to Christ. And that’s fairly recent. I don’t know when it was, but it has not been long. I believe he really made a commitment. But he’s a baby Christian. We all need to be praying for him, especially if there’s a possibility of him being the next executive officer."
Then, after news of Trump's alleged conversion broke, Dobson felt compelled to clarify his comments, issuing a statement walking back his comments somewhat and providing the name of the pastor who supposedly led Trump to conversion and that was Paula White.
"Only the Lord knows the condition of a person's heart. I can only tell you what I've heard. First, Trump appears to be tender to things of the Spirit. I also hear that Paula White has known Trump for years and that she personally led him to Christ. Do I know that for sure? No. Do I know the details of that alleged conversion? I can't say that I do. If anything, this man is a baby Christian who doesn't have a clue about how believers think, talk and act.” (https://www.dailywire.com/news/6944/dr-james-dobson-trump-recently-accepted-christ-james-barrett) (But, that is such an odd statement, that he is a baby Christian because if he believed this, why isn’t James Dobson offering him true Biblical counsel? It’s the saddest thing that Pres. Trump has this board of “spiritual advisors” who aren’t truly leading him to the Lord or giving him Biblical counsel).
And, next we have the recent situation in the news concerning the freed pastor Andrew Brunson and his prayer for Pres. Trump: “Lord, God, I ask that You pour out Your Holy Spirit on Pres. Trump; that You give him supernatural wisdom to accomplish all the plans You have for this country and for him; I ask You give him wisdom on how to lead this country into righteousness; I ask that You give him wisdom and perseverance and courage to stand for truth; I ask that You protect him from slander, from enemies, from those that would undermine. I ask that You make him a great blessing to this country…And, we bless him. May he be a great blessing to our country. In Jesus’ Name, we bless you, amen.”
Noreen Brunson, Andrew’s wife then said: “I want to pray that the Spirit of the Lord would rest on the president; the Spirit of wisdom and understanding; the Spirit of counsel and might; the Spirit of knowledge and fear of the Lord, amen.” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rCfwM8LbL0&feature=youtu.be) (But, as I already stated with the first example, no one has the Holy Spirit or can have the Holy Spirit poured out on them unless they are first saved).
And, w have Tony Perkins, founder of the Family Research Council, posted an article concerning Andrew Brunson and the circumstances around him being set free. He also included Brunson’s prayer in his article so he apparently has no problems with someone praying over Pres. Trump and using words to indicate he is saved. (https://www.frcaction.org/get.cfm?i=WA18J31&f=WU18J05)
And, then, on Oct. 15 we have a post on Frances Swaggart’s Facebook page which reads: “My family and I are so thankful that Pastor Andrew Brunson is home, safely, and reunited with his family. Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, was with Pastor Brunson on behalf of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom at his hearing on Friday, and accompanied him home. He said the experience of seeing the pastor released was surreal and he was thankful that the prayers of millions were answered and for the resolve of this administration to bring him home. Mr. Perkins said, “Not only did this administration, this president, send help to Pastor Brunson and bring him home, but it sent a message of hope to the persecuted around the globe that America cares about, number one, the well-being of Americans, but number two, we will no longer sacrifice the fundamental human right of religious freedom on the altar of globalism. This was a big event, and the president and his team needs to be commended.” (And, of course, that was a lot of praise for the president, we would note).
I believe that seeing Pastor Brunson get down on one knee and pray for the president of the United States in the Oval Office inspired Christians around the world, as did the words of his prayer. (And, we must note that it was quite odd to see Andrew Brunson get down on his knees while praying, but Pres. Trump did not do so. I wanted to make sure to say she included the words to the prayer in this post, but I didn’t want to reread them).
And, then, here are a few comments on Frances Swaggart’s: I can see that Pastor Brunson gave President Trump a double anointing! President Trump was chosen and anointed by God. God's hand is upon him in a supernatural way!
Such a beautiful sight to see Pastor Brunson freed and him praying over our President Donald J. Trump who always accepts these prayers with such a humble spirit! Our President is becoming a really good man, and I believe that he loves our Lord and will end up being the best Christian President our country has ever had!
It is wonderful to see prayer "in the name of Jesus" in our White House! I pray God will continue to have mercy on our nation and expose the corrupt that seek to destroy this President.
Should have baptized Trump while he was at it! (But, we truly see the danger of people being misled concerning Pres. Trump. The adoration of him in these statements is quite evident and it is heartbreaking to see).
One person had the nerve to speak the truth concerning the previous statement of baptizing Pres. Trump as he said, “He has to be saved first.” Sadly, so many people just going along with the flow, bragging on this situation, thinking it’s wonderful, and not even thinking we need to be Biblically correct here.
Then, as we mentioned in our last discussion, Dr. Darrell Scott, senior pastor of New Spirit Revival Center in Cleveland, Ohio, stated that Pres. Trump considers himself a Christian on the Frances and Friends program. Dr. Scott said Pres. Trump believes all the basic tenets of the Christian faith and listed several of them. However, his sanctification is still a work in progress. He also stated that Donald Trump has respect and reverence for God and the men and women of God and for Christianity as a whole. He believes pastors have a higher calling. He tells pastors I’m not where you guys are. (http://www.sonlifetv.com/archives.html) Frances and Friends for Oct. 5).
Well, that is all I have for this portion of the discussion and now, Sister Tammy, would you present the information you have gathered at this time concerning involvement for a believer in politics, please?
As a born-again Christian, many are asking questions and wondering are we to be involved in politics and where do we stand with the governments of this world? We must carefully examine the Word of God for anything that we have questions about as a believer because this is our first and final authority. We never go outside of the Word and we always make sure to keep in line with the whole counsel of God and not just tear bits out to make it suit our own ideas and beliefs.
We need to look at some of the questions that arise in this area concerning politics and the Christian and with careful conclusion and seeking the Word I can state that we have no Scriptural mandate to be involved in the political system we have in operation today.
Many would like to take the examples of Daniel, Esther and Joseph as proof that we are to be involved with this system, but we must look at the time, the context and the reasons why these were in these positions at this time. Also, we must look at who put these Biblical examples in these positions so that there is no confusion as to who is in control of everything that is going on in this world that is soon to be renewed by fire!
God was the King of Israel in the Old Testament, during which time He worked through a physical nation upon this earth. Moses, Joshua, the judges and the kings of Israel and Judah, among others, were leaders in Israel. Since they were appointed and since they ruled God’s people under His government, they do not provide examples supporting participation in secular political systems. Moses was a ruler in Egypt, but this was before his conversion and he did not seek that political office. And once Moses was called, he found that he could no longer participate in that office.
God placed these here for His purposes, for the Jewish people and Israel. God used Daniel to show what is going to happen in our day and knowing what is happening now was culminating even then! A One World Religious Order like we often speak about! Daniel never obeyed the system. He never defiled himself with the king’s meat and he prayed despite the call to disobey God. He trusted in the Lord and His purposes prevailed. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were taken captive by the Babylonians. They had to risk their lives for issues related to dietary laws and prayer. They were all appointed to their positions; therefore, their situations do not establish a precedent for God’s people.
Joseph was taken to Egypt as a slave and was made a servant in the house of Potiphar. After being imprisoned, Joseph was appointed to an office by Pharaoh, a dictator. Joseph never ran for office. Nor was he voted in. God established Joseph. This certainly did not establish a precedent among his descendants.
Esther was told by Mordecai not to reveal her lineage to the king. She found favor in the king’s sight and eventually was chosen as a queen. God clearly blessed her and enabled her to have influence as the king’s wife, resulting in the protection of His people. This did not lead to a precedent where Israelite women were encouraged to try to become queens or get involved in Persian politics.
This was also to show these kings they are not in control and God will place whom He pleases in positions. The gospel came to us through all this in the end and now we have this, then what are we doing with it? Do we think we have to join in where God is telling us to avoid, joining with people in political positions claiming they know our Saviour? No! We are to mark and avoid these because they confuse people to think this is what Christianity looks like. We are to respect people, but not their faulty ideas of God. God still has a plan for the Jewish people, but we can clearly see the Bible tells us it will be Him that acts to save them in the end because all nations will turn against them.
Do we really understand the times we are in? Do we really think God is not coming back to smash all this to pieces what is going to get worse and soon bring in the Antichrist and Mark of the Beast? We do really need to study and be careful not to use examples that were used for a specific purpose and stick them to the times they prophesied were coming on this earth! I do pray for leaders and people in positions and respect them as people, my desire is people will be saved from the world's system and to receive eternal life, yet in saying this, I do not respect false Christianity, false beliefs and Satan’s ministers that come as righteous workers.
The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus would be born into this world as God’s Son and He would come from a specific people. Jesus was from the foundation of this world and always was coming and has come and paid the sin debt as prophesied and was buried and rose again after three days! He will soon return and be back to put this world’s system down.
The Bible tells us that God’s Kingdom is not of this world in John 18:36. We look to the government of the Kingdom of God and the laws by which it stands for. The fullness of God’s government will not be visibly established on earth until the future. The state to which the believer currently belongs is not antagonistic to secular governmental authority, where it does not contradict the word of God in what is right, meaning we do not murder, steal from others, etc. Nevertheless, the believer’s values, laws and allegiance are contrary to the world, which is antagonistic to God. We are waiting for a theocracy, “whose builder and maker is God” (Hebrews 11:10).
And, like I have already stated about voting, some of the laws are consistent with Biblical principles, so we can see why Paul would have said that we should be subject to the governing authorities, if this doesn’t mean disobeying God in that process, as I have explained. But, there may be some things, like I’ve stated, that are right, but that whole system we cannot just give our vote to. Like I’ve stated, yes, just apply my vote to your policies against abortion and gay marriage, but just forget these things over here. But, we can’t just do that. When you vote for someone, you give that candidate your approval, you’re saying yes to what that whole system stands for. This is why we don’t do it. And, we have some that would claim that you’re not even saved if you don’t vote. How ridiculous. When we look at all of this evidence and when we read the Word of God. Actually, they want to turn that around. Not to be mean, but examine yourself and see whether you be in the faith. You know, the laws for Israel came from God and we can see today that none of the physical nations or national leaders represent God and His people, yet members of the Body of Christ are legal citizens of physical nations. There is only one Kingdom that can represent the interest of God, His laws and His Church—the future Kingdom of God where we hasten that day of its coming. This world’s going to get worse. The Bible tells us the system of this world is contrary to God’s system and people getting caught up in this are causing so much division within the body of Christ. You know, it is just crazy how people would just reject their brethren for a vote, for this. Honestly, it’s ridiculous. But, I just pray like you do, sister Connie, that the Lord would open people’s eyes…This is Bible. We just stick with the Word of God. It doesn’t matter what people say. We just pray for souls.
(Again, people just ripping scriptures out of the Old Testament; people taking them out of context. How many times have we heard people use the phrase, “for such a time as this,” concerning Pres. Trump? Besides them saying he is saved. Some of them won’t go that far. Some of them will not say that he is saved, but they do want to throw in there, oh, God is using him to bless this nation. It shows a true lack of Biblical understanding; just take these scriptures out of context; just rip them out of the Old Testament. It was mainly Lance Wallnau, who wanted to say that Pres. Trump was Cyrus, because Cyrus was mentioned in Isa. 45 and Pres. Trump is the 45th president. But, again, as we’ve mentioned many times, there were not chapters and verses in the Bible when it was written. Those were not instituted until centuries later so you cannot apply that concept. But, so many things that are just truly heartbreaking we see happening in what calls itself the modern church world. But, we continue to pray; we continue to ask the Lord to open people’s eyes to stay focused on Jesus Christ and His soon return. It is obvious that those who are focusing on man, and some type of a deliverer or savior, what will be the end of that? With the Antichrist, that’s all that can be leading to because we see so much leading to that. Obviously, we are in an antichrist system now, but these types of things are just preparing people to actually look to a man).